Summoner got destroyed this patch

[Spellbinder]

Losing thunder is ~7.5% dps loss.

I'm not the number cruncher I used to be, so could you explain how the loss of Thunder is only 7.5%? I'm genuinely curious.

[pandabearcat]

I'm not the number cruncher I used to be, so could you explain how the loss of Thunder is only 7.5%? I'm genuinely curious.

Well I can't really dig up my thread now, but basically looked at all the raw potency numbers of all summoner attacks (ignoring spell haste).

Essentially, what it boils down to is summonerss do roughly 22k potency over 180 seconds (cooldown of RS).

You spend 8-9 of those GCD's on thunder, which counts for something like 2300-2400 potency.

You instead use those GCDs to Ruin, which is ~740 potency.

So you lose 1660 potency over 180 seconds, which is ~9.2 pps which is roughly 7.5% total dps loss.

The reason it seems smaller is your pet is there for ~25-33% of your damage.

This includes pet approximations.

It is ~10% of personal dps loss, if you want to ignore pets entirely.

For cleaving...it is a slightly higher dps loss, but we can't keep thunder up on more than maybe 2 targets anyway, too much mp.

[Spellbinder]

Well I can't really dig up my thread now, but basically looked at all the raw potency numbers of all summoner attacks (ignoring spell haste).

Essentially, what it boils down to is summons do roughly 22k potency over 180 seconds (cooldown of RS).

You spend 8-9 of those GCD's on thunder, which counts for something like 2300-2400 potency.

You instead use those GCDs to Ruin, which is ~740 potency.

So you lose 1660 potency over 180 seconds, which is ~9.2 pps which is roughly 7.5% total dps loss.

This includes pet approximations.

Two last questions just to be sure.

1.) Does 2300 - 2400 potency include Enkindle in the rotation? (Depending on the instance, I tend to save it)
2.) pps = potency per second? (I'm not familiar with the acronyms floating around the forums these days. )

[pandabearcat]

Two last questions just to be sure.

1.) Does 2300 - 2400 potency include Enkindle in the rotation? (Depending on the instance, I tend to save it)
2.) pps = potency per second? (I'm not familiar with the acronyms floating around the forums these days. )

1. Naw, I dont' think I counted enkindle...over the course of 5 minutes its something like maybe a 1%? dps increase.
2. yea, thats what I use it as.

PS maybe look at my edits, I realized I was not entirely clear.

[Illa]

Summoner's and all other classes aside from melee got nerfed to balance the changes in PvP. Does anyone really care about that aside from having fun in there? I mean, they nerfed abilities pretty hard, in a sense, to balance an aspect of the game that isn't even a core focus of the game. It's more like something fun to do on the side. It will never become added to MLG, so I ask you this, Square Enix: Why?

[Stupified]

SE has officially made SMN, my main, useless in end game raiding. SMN was already on the low end of single target DPS and burst DPS, now SMN is Officially the worst single target dps with the loss of thunder, and was probably already the worst burst dps.

- Replacing Thunder with Blizzard 2 is an absolute Joke
- Having us have our pets on full "Sic" or be forced to control ALL pet actions is unusable.
- Most endgame content most difficulty fights are single target checks and burst checks, both of which SMN were weak before this nerf and now completely useless for
- SMN was a good dps by by no means on average the best dps, yet SE decided we should be "Balanced" by making us have no purpose for single target or burst DPS

Overall, I am done playing SMN till they fix our class. Thank God I leveled BLM as I am being forced to play that class now by default as I still want to be a caster

*Requiem of the Summoner

[Sylari]

SE has officially made SMN, my main, useless in end game raiding.

The nerfs suck but melodrama like this doesn't help us.

So does nonsense like claiming that summoners were "weak" at single target DPS.

[Nemhy]

SMN was already on the low end of single target DPS

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!!!! oh...you were serious?

........

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Wolfenkritter]

SMN was already on the low end of single target DPS

Far from it. They're considered the most powerful ranged single target DPS.

Replacing Thunder with Blizzard 2 is an absolute Joke

Yeah it is, and it adds very little to the class. Tri-Disaster has higher damage, a greater duration and is ranged.

Having us have our pets on full "Sic" or be forced to control ALL pet actions

Thats when the Pet is set to Obey and Steady. If the pet is set to Obey and Guard it should use its auto-attack as it always did. As said earlier in the thread.

Most endgame content most difficulty fights are single target checks and burst checks, both of which SMN were weak before

A SMN can handle all of Coil just fine. They have high single target DPS and bring strong utility with Virus, Eye for an Eye and to a lesser extent, Resurrection. A DPS drop isn't enough to ruin our viability, even if its a big one. The change in the boots is much worse.

[xardus]

Well I can't really dig up my thread now, but basically looked at all the raw potency numbers of all summoner attacks (ignoring spell haste).

Essentially, what it boils down to is summonerss do roughly 22k potency over 180 seconds (cooldown of RS).

You spend 8-9 of those GCD's on thunder, which counts for something like 2300-2400 potency.


You instead use those GCDs to Ruin, which is ~740 potency.

So you lose 1660 potency over 180 seconds, which is ~9.2 pps which is roughly 7.5% total dps loss.

The reason it seems smaller is your pet is there for ~25-33% of your damage.

This includes pet approximations.

It is ~10% of personal dps loss, if you want to ignore pets entirely.

For cleaving...it is a slightly higher dps loss, but we can't keep thunder up on more than maybe 2 targets anyway, too much mp.

mmmmh.. i just get up and near to lauch so dont want take calculator to check ur counts but...
you have to know that decimals are not considered so that 7.5% is 8% instead (because referred to base damage and not to percentage)
and yes,we have a pet who does about 20% of our dmg but.... WE ALREADY HAVE IT! they did not gave us a pet,they didnt modify the existings and just nerfed dmg of the caster!
8% damage isnt so much u say? its pretty near 10% in other words 1\10 nerf....if u have 1000dollars thats 100 dollars...isnt so few
but now we have 2 binding spells who drain mana as hell and do no dmg,and of course binds is briken from SF so if u have to do hight dps in large number like garuda plumes u have to choose,aoe dps or aoe bind? u cant use both because breaks binds,u cant use bane because hit only 3 target and there are just 1 or 2 more ^^ LOL

i understand that losing thunder isnt a completely ruin of a class,its just a nonsense! summoner will only be "the resser who have some damage" really...whats the difference between scholar? he can heal we cant...summoner pet has not the same relevance if compared to scholar one,we cant heal we cant aoe,we have no more higher dps ONLY ON SINGLE TARGET,we have lower mana pot,lower hp and.....


17 SKILL TO MANAGE AS HELL TO DO LESS DAMAGE OF BLM|MONK|BARD|DAGOON
i have a monk and its very spamming class but not like summoner
black mages use almost 7\8 skills to maximise theyr dps,for the same dps we have 17 and quiet more difficult to trak because everyone has different time,different proprieties different role and so on

i could accept a 10% nerf...but only if its motivated and related to an improvement in other way