New Inner Beast DR.. the end all be all skill

[Kitru]

Sorry but do you actually think Twintania cares if you pop Bloodbath?

No, but Twintania is one of those situations where the 20% DR from IB is already going to place WAR mitigation above PLD. In any situation where the WAR self-heals are laughable, the new IB is going to mean that a WAR requires less healing than a PLD. In any situation where the damage is low enough that the DR leaves WAR behind PLD for mitigation, the self heals are going to make up the difference.

[SwordCoheir]

No, but Twintania is one of those situations where the 20% DR from IB is already going to place WAR mitigation above PLD. In any situation where the WAR self-heals are laughable, the new IB is going to mean that a WAR requires less healing than a PLD. In any situation where the damage is low enough that the DR leaves WAR behind PLD for mitigation, the self heals are going to make up the difference.

Yeah >.> about that, other than Death Sentence Twintania isn't all that dangerous to a MT. Since you'd ideally save your buffs for Death Sentence and they're 30 seconds apart (sometimes a little longer if she's mid-cast) you should always have something up for DS every time if you have a solid rotation, on top of that you can pre-emptively Stoneskin to negate another 500-650 damage on PLD, so I don't think IB is going to give WAR any advantages over PLD in that instance besides letting them be more on PAR.

[Kitru]

Since you'd ideally save your buffs for Death Sentence and they're 30 seconds apart (sometimes a little longer if she's mid-cast) you should always have something up for DS every time if you have a solid rotation, on top of that you can pre-emptively Stoneskin to negate another 500-650 damage on PLD, so I don't think IB is going to give WAR any advantages over PLD in that instance besides letting them be more on PAR.

WAR is getting a substantially improved CD suite come 2.1 (Vengeance on 120 sec CD, Foresight on 90 sec CD, Convalescence on 120 sec CD, ToB on 120 sec CD, Holmgang on 180 sec CD; Featherfoot and Mantra are also there, but Featherfoot is unreliable and Mantra is really more of a group buff) which means that, while PLD is going to have stronger comparable CDs, WAR is still going to have one available for every single one as well. When you compared the, albeit weaker, WAR CD stacked with IB against a PLD's single CD, WAR is still going to do better.

Stoneskin is also not really a major advantage given that your WHM should be Stoneskinning you before Death Sentence anyways (and your SCH should be throwing Adloq on you too). Stoneskin for a PLD contributes about as much as Inner Beast's heal so, even if your WHM *isn't* throwing SS on you preemptively, unless you waste the IB heal completely, the two effects are, essentially, a break even (the IB self heal and Stoneskin, that is).

The only time that PLD actually pulls ahead of WAR is when damage is spread out evenly rather than primarily lumped into 6 second windows (of which there really aren't any outside of trash packs). Either that or when the player at the helm of the WAR is bad/mediocre. The length of the PLD CDs is definitely going to make PLD a much more *forgiving* tank to play, but, when properly leveraged, WAR is going to do better.

[Gooner_iBluAirJGR]

I think PLD will still be the optimal main tank after patch , but now WAR is still more desirable for offtanking now with the -damage path combo.

I think the two roles work well together now. Rage of Halone would help warriors main tanking while storms path would help paladins main tanking.

[Paikis]

WAR is getting a substantially improved CD suite come 2.1 (Vengeance on 120 sec CD, Foresight on 90 sec CD, Convalescence on 120 sec CD, ToB on 120 sec CD, Holmgang on 180 sec CD; Featherfoot and Mantra are also there, but Featherfoot is unreliable and Mantra is really more of a group buff) which means that, while PLD is going to have stronger comparable CDs, WAR is still going to have one available for every single one as well. When you compared the, albeit weaker, WAR CD stacked with IB against a PLD's single CD, WAR is still going to do better.

Foresight and Mantra are both worthless. You can safely macro them into your combos and pretend they don't exist. I'm not even sure Mantra is worth using at all unless you're trying to help with prolonged AoE healing on your entire group or you just don't have a monk. 5% of 1500 works out to be an extra 75hp per heal received. 15 seconds gives 6 GCDs, assuming 2 healers that's about 900 extra healing spread over 15 seconds. It can be OK if something crits, but you can't rely on crits. I'd rather have the heal from Second Wind (which I also don't use) or the extra crit from Internal Release (which I do use).

Vengeance is good, as are Thrill and Convalescence, though Convalescence can cause some agro issues in situations with high healing. Holmgang doesn't really count as a cooldown; It's a death prevent, it doesn't make you take less damage or more healing. Featherfoot is OK, but is unreliable and can you even dodge Death Sentence? I certainly don't remember doing it.

[Kitru]

Foresight and Mantra are both worthless.

I'm actually thinking about revising my opinion of Foresight a bit. It's not Rampart, but it's still a roughly 10% reduction in physical damage taken, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Vengeance is good, as are Thrill and Convalescence, though Convalescence can cause some agro issues in situations with high healing.

ToB is, honestly, the weakest tank CD in the entire game. Foresight is going to do more for you than even the buffed ToB because 20% +hp means next to nothing, especially given the DR we're getting on IB. If you're having enmity issues from tank healing *ever*, you're doing something wrong. The only time that a healer even gets remotely close to pulling aggro off of a tank is when it's AoE healing and, at that point, Mantra is going to have a bigger impact upon the enmity generated than Convalescence will. It's the same thing with people complaining about the 15/20% +healing that WAR has somehow making aggro maintenance harder.

Holmgang doesn't really count as a cooldown; It's a death prevent, it doesn't make you take less damage or more healing.

If you throw up Holmgang when you're at 500 hp and then eat a Death Sentence, you just reduced incoming damage by 5k+. It's not an ability you're going to use with regularity, but, when you use it, if you get *any* benefit out of it, it's still a reduction in damage taken.

Featherfoot is OK, but is unreliable and can you even dodge Death Sentence? I certainly don't remember doing it.

I vaguely recall dodging a Death Sentence, but I'm not entirely sure. If you can parry it, you can be pretty sure that you can dodge it. Either way, Featherfoot isn't reliable, which is what makes it not particularly valuable. If anything, you want to use Featherfoot on CD as opposed to Foresight because Foresight is, at the very least, reliable, so Featherfoot only provides real value with the Law of Large Numbers.

[PenutButter]

Seems like a lot of people here are just "QQing about job simply because its my job" again, which is exactly what I was expecting anyways. Personally, I think the new WAR changes are a bit too strong but we won't know for sure til we can actually do comprehensive tests ourselves. I assume that the developers at least tested these changes extensively so they are probably in a better position to comment on balance.

[Schmitty]

Oh just stop. WAR is changing, deal with it.

Both classes still will play differently, even after 2.1. PLD is still much more straightforward in its general design and usage.

This man knows what time it is.

[Kaelon79]

You are also forgetting to factor in Warriors get the advantage of Storms Path - The combo bonus now also reduces damage dealt by enemies by 10%.

They removed this from bard rain and gave it to warriors basicly forcing groups to take a warrior for all content until a group is completely geared to compensate the dmg reduction on top of all the other warrior buffs. I know they needed qol changes like some of the other classes but this is buff list is just laughable and mostly a result of the qq because they certainly didn't need all this.

Warriors crying they can't do content but it has been shown they can do all content just fine once properly geared. Heck even a WHM can tank titan hardmode while warriors claim they couldn't.

[Leonus]

You are also forgetting to factor in Warriors get the advantage of Storms Path - The combo bonus now also reduces damage dealt by enemies by 10%.

They removed this from bard rain and gave it to warriors basicly forcing groups to take a warrior for all content until a group is completely geared to compensate the dmg reduction on top of all the other warrior buffs. I know they needed qol changes like some of the other classes but this is buff list is just laughable and mostly a result of the qq because they certainly didn't need all this.


Warriors crying they can't do content but it has been shown they can do all content just fine once properly geared. Heck even a WHM can tank titan hardmode while warriors claim they couldn't.

They could have just nerfed pld to be more inline with war.

That is the complete honest truth, but i guess these changes bring more dynamics to the group and put war more in line with pld. There was two options, either nerf pld (which would have caused a bunch of rage quitting from players) or make war competitive to pld so that not only could you do content with Pld/Pld or Pld/War, but also War/War.

You call it QoL changes, when really most of the changes (maybe not all) needed to take place because, War is/was currently, straight up a weaker tank than pld when you have them both equally geared. Period, there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it.