I hate comparing this game to FF XI because it isn't trying to be FF XI but -

[Warlyx]

if SE want to copy something from FFXI , copy the OST , Naoshi Mizuta rocks

[KiriA500]

I feel like you're ignoring part of my post in an effort to try and burn or discredit me, but that's your right I guess.

I acknowledged that FF XIV hasn't had the time that FF XI has. I acknowledged that FF XI was on its 4th expansion at that point in time. But it's not solely a matter of how much content is available, it's a matter of the way the content is arranged (And will likely be arranged in the future). The way the content is currently laid out (Each step gears you up for the next until you reach a peak) as well as the statement/rumor that Binding Coil will eventually be lowered in difficulty for those who are unable to beat it just reinforces that concept of vertical progression. If content is constantly being outclassed by new content people will eventually abandon it.

Well, you haven't even touched 9 of your classes, and aside from Paladin, you've barely touched the ones you have leveled. I wouldn't really talk about running out of content until you've actually run out of content.

And before you come in with the typical "but I don't want to level those things!" reply that everyone always gives, I hate to break it to you, but that is content that you're avoiding. Leveling up in XI counts as content, so it does here as well.

If the development team can actually do what Yoshi-P has stated, that we'll see a content patch every 3 months or so, we'll have more content than FFXI in a year, simply because we'll be getting content, instead of relying on one main attraction per expansion pack. Yes, that means that older content isn't going to be as desirable in the eyes of the GOTTAHAVETHEBEST crowd, but that's ok, that's how it should be. Making it to where you end up having to just run year old content over and over to obtain stuff means the development team has to put in less effort when developing new content, because they already made content that everybody wants. I'm sorry, but I don't want to deal with that nonsense ever again. Give me new dungeons every few months so I have something new to look forward to instead of just repeating the same content for years at a time.

[Roris]

The old game had the beginnings of a similar alternative system, you had some alternatives between crafted gear with materia, some Beastmen Stronghold gear, doing speedruns for Darklight, farming seals for Grand Company gear, some decent and also marketable dungeon gear like Mage's or Chiran, Hamlet gear including gear for gatherers and crafters, some NM drops, some leve rewards, primal weapons, GC weapons, Skirmish weapons with materia and the more involved and rewarding Relic quest.

It wasn't perfect but it was a nice base they could have built upon, now the only real progression paths are farming Phils for Darklight along some two star crafted gear with materia, then move to CT, Myth and Coil gear. For weapons there's primal or just plainly relics since they are much faster and easier to get followed by Extreme Primal, +1s and Coil weapons, so they kinda have just a tiny bit more options in that regard.

[KraggyKor]

One point I am unable to get over is the way progression is handled. In FF XI (At least in the early days when it was 1-75 and WoTG was the newest expansion)

Um, 'early days'?

What?

WoTG was the FOURTH expansion (after Zilart, COP and ToAU) for the game and was released 5+ (7+, can't recall the year now) years after the game's release in 2002.

[Prototype909]

Um, 'early days'?

What?

WoTG was the FOURTH expansion (after Zilart, COP and ToAU) for the game and was released 5+ (7+, can't recall the year now) years after the game's release in 2002.

Early days as defined by pre-Abyssea + level cap raises which totally changed the way the game's content was approached

[Ryans]

FFXI was just a more expansive game from the ground up. It has varying job combinations and varying stats that can allow for a lot more customization than FFXIV. With all that potential for customization, FFXI could pump out new items with different special stats that could be used in conjunction with older gear to give the biggest combined boost to, say, haste or you could have a different set of gear if you were focusing on Store TP.

FFXIV could go the same direction, but I don't think it will because it is focused more on casual players. Yoshida has said he wants an expansion every one to two years with a level cap raise with each one. That doesn't leave much time to design multiple sets of gear (plus the content to go with it) for each job all of equal strength, but a focus in different areas. It also doesn't leave much time for players to get the select pieces of gear they want out of multiple sets even if there was more customization choices, which I assume will come with time.

Even though I prefer horizontal progression, a linear vertical progression is easier to manage and design and it's easier for the average gamer to participate in.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

Early days as defined by pre-Abyssea + level cap raises which totally changed the way the game's content was approached

if your definition of early is a game old 5 years at that time, in ffXIV we are still at concept developing. And yet you're worried.rofl

[OrionInerghem]

I will tell you one big difference.

Ffxiv has been out 4 months and I have all classes maxed and tmr I'll get my 9th relic.

It took me 9 years to cap all classes in XI and I only got 2 relics, but XIV is no comparison there

[Rhas]

FFXI was just a more expansive game from the ground up. It has varying job combinations and varying stats that can allow for a lot more customization than FFXIV. With all that potential for customization, FFXI could pump out new items with different special stats that could be used in conjunction with older gear to give the biggest combined boost to, say, haste or you could have a different set of gear if you were focusing on Store TP.

No, it really wasn't. Most of the miserable bugs had gotten ironed out before it even hit the US shore(though a few severe ones persisted even after) I suggest going back and reading about the original XI release in japan. It took a *lot* of time to reach the stability they needed. It was nowhere near expansive at launch as XIV was and was barely functional until the 1st expansion.

FFXIV could go the same direction, but I don't think it will because it is focused more on casual players. Yoshida has said he wants an expansion every one to two years with a level cap raise with each one.

Yes, I agree that XIV caters to casuals too much, but it caters even more to RMT prevention (imo). Their excess in planning for it has greatly hampered what could have been great game systems. (Take fishing, for example.) While everyone hates RMT when you so severely cripple yourself because of it, it can do just as much harm (imo)

Even though I prefer horizontal progression, a linear vertical progression is easier to manage and design and it's easier for the average gamer to participate in.

It may be easier but there really is no 'average' gamer. ;P Everyone is different. if you ask 1000 people, you will most likely get 1000 different/varied results and while there may be some commonality, it still is 1000 different answers heheh

I personally think there needs to be more challenging situations introduced (for lower levels) that is completely optional for those that enjoy a challenge. Bring back at least a little sense of danger. Give me a zone that has level 99 monsters again for me to carefully explore ;P I would consider that (to me) progression in a way because I like exploring. In 1.0 I had *every* waypoint in the game before 3 days was out starting at level 1 just exploring on foot and dodging monsters. In XI I used to run from Windhurst to bastok/sandoria/jeuno at level 1 for a fun challenge. That was no easy task at the US release ;P

[Ryans]

No, it really wasn't. Most of the miserable bugs had gotten ironed out before it even hit the US shore(though a few severe ones persisted even after) I suggest going back and reading about the original XI release in japan. It took a *lot* of time to reach the stability they needed. It was nowhere near expansive at launch as XIV was and was barely functional until the 1st expansion.

I wasn't talking about FFXI at release compared to FFXIV at release when I said ground up. I meant the way the game worked. The framework of it. FFXI was designed for customization, FFXIV isn't.

And there is an average gamer. What people enjoy isn't the issue because as you said that varies, it's what they can accomplish in a given amount of time in terms of game progression. Even on an individual game level there is an average for it's player base. It might not seem like it from a hardcore, or even semi-avid for that matter, gamer's point of view, but most people who play video games aren't able to play more than a few hours a week. They are the average, the majority of the paying costumers if you will.