Market Wards vs AH

[Abriael]

What do you know about SE time-scales and how long programming takes?

back already?

Completely new features aren't programmed, implemented and *tested* overnight, especially when affecting a crucial mechanic like the economy. I doubt SE wants some gil duping glitch running around this game.

On the other hand, adding features to existing implementations is much easier and faster, as most of the bones of the system are already in place.

So yeah, while he obviously put in some numbers for the sake of example, it's pretty obvious that adding features to the current system would be faster and more resource-efficent than scrapping it and implementing a new one.

[ShinChuck]

ok I now declare all of us that are now on the same page as being in favor of the "Duck" system!

I approve of this idea. I'll give the dev team the go-ahead.

[Abriael]

I would accept the wards as a full featured AH if they could do the following - Not make me zone in and out of 20 different instanced areas to buy each item i want. Then it would be an AH. If you still have to zone around form place to place then its not a fully featured AH - its a Market Ward with a search function.

As for what you call it - i dont care, you could call it the Duck House for all i care, as long as its secretly called the auction house by all normal people.

Then I encourage you and others, instead of copntinuously opening and spamming threads demanding an AH, to request them to add a consignment system to the market wards. Which, by the way, would probably also force them to add a mail system, taking two birds with one stone.

I'd be all for it.

And before someone tells me "but it'd be an AH! So why not just scrapping the market wards and create an AH?"

The answer is: because it would be an AH that includes feature that AHs don't have, like visual shopping, impulse purchases, and eyecandy.
And ultimately because building over an existing system would let them save resources that they can use elsewhere, and this game NEEDS those resources allocated to a ton of different stuff.

[Xzen]

What do you know about SE time-scales and how long programming takes?

You either
A: Are spouting complete rubbish, spewing it all over this nice shiny new forum, pulling numbers out of a hat and ramming them down our throat as facts that we should believe to be true as much as Coke is Dark Brown (its not its white btw)
or
B: Work inside SE or a similiarly sized Production House in a senior capacity with your finger on the pulse of how long it takes to write an AH or update market bored's - erm i mean wards.

Lets have a Poll, do you think he fits into category A or B everyone?

Vote Now to receive the grand prize ! A shiny new AH delivered to a game client near you !

Funny thing is. One of those is pretty close.

P.S. Just because I have worked in the industry I do not feel that my opinion bears more weight than yours.

[kukurumei]

There is nothing complicated about making an AH, except maybe the backend system to link to the AH. If developers have problems with that, they should be shot with having that kind of coding in a MMO.

An AH is basically a database lookup. Anyone can do it with minimum knowledge, and even steal-able in this day and age. Any old budding web developer would have done it.

It may have been hard two decades ago when you had to actually make something, but these days with SQL databases ready to program. It's a wonder why it's not in next week.

laymen's recipe:
1: have a SQL database
2: program it to have input and output
3: Think up filters that will display what you want
4: It's done, now just draw a GUI around it

Where market wards would probably all kind of insanity, from debugging a retainer, to tracking down it's position, to making sure the server load doesn't go boom.

I have no explaination why people would like the retainer system other then graphics. It's worse then an AH, slower then an AH, and takes more effort to add features then an AH. It's basically getting ripped off by a used car salesman.

[Abriael]

There is nothing complicated about making an AH, except maybe the backend system to link to the AH. If developers have problems with that, they should be shot with having that kind of coding in a MMO.

An AH is basically a database lookup. Anyone can do it with minimum knowledge, and even steal-able in this day and age. Any old budding web developer would have done it.

It may have been hard two decades ago when you had to actually make something, but these days with SQL databases ready to program. It's a wonder why it's not in next week.

laymen's recipe:
1: have a SQL database
2: program it to have input and output
3: Think up filters that will display what you want
4: It's done, now just draw a GUI around it

Where market wards would probably all kind of insanity, from debugging a retainer, to tracking down it's position, to making sure the server load doesn't go boom.

I have no explaination why people would like the retainer system other then graphics. It's worse then an AH, slower then an AH, and takes more effort to add features then an AH. It's basically getting ripped off by a used car salesman.

You lost me at the "anyone can do it". After that I was too busy laughing

Though, I can provide you with SE's adress. Then you can send them a resume and prove it


(though I would advise not to include in your cover letter this massively oversimplified vision of your perspective job description, I feel it would equally massively reduce your chances to actually prove your worth)

[kukurumei]

You lost me at the "anyone can do it". After that I was too busy laughing

Though, I can provide you with SE's adress. Then you can send them a resume and prove it


(though I would advise not to include in your cover letter this massively oversimplified vision of your perspective job description, I feel it would equally massively reduce your chances to actually prove your worth)

I would but this is the inter-web.

And it proves how you're not realizing what an AH is. And what a SQL database is. And why the web can make shopping portal site in about 2 weeks.

You take in every item ID, you tag it in the fields. You query a filter like search ex: all IDs with swords field. It displays. Done. Then you can put a fancy blue button on it. If you want to get more modern features. you can query the database for all IDs with swords field, and with "levels" numbered field 10-25. Done again.

The database is pre-made. you can find it free, pay a small amount, and even open source versions, etc, etc etc. It's all there. heck you can edit it with the query analyzer tools they provide. MS SQL 200x is a very popular one in the business world.

Some people...geez

[Abriael]

I would but this is the inter-web.

And it proves how you're not realizing what an AH is. And what a SQL database is. And why the web can make shopping portal site in about 2 weeks.

You take in every item ID, you tag it in the fields. You query a filter like search ex: all IDs with swords field. It displays. Done. Then you can put a fancy blue button on it.

You fail to understand that those systems are already in place for the current market wards system, otherwise... guess what? You wouldn't be able to seach through it. They just need to build and extend upon what they already have.

An AH in the context of a MMORPG is NOT the same thing as a webcommerce site. It needs to be integrated in the (a LOT more complex) systems of the MMORPG itself, it needs to be tested in that environment, and it needs not to create glitches/conflicts in that environment/context. Which is a lot more problematic than just slapping an SQL database in the face of the web.

Of course it's not rocket science. But even things that aren't rocket science require plenty development AND QA (people always forget that systems need also to be tested, not just implemented, even more so systems that have to do with the economy) resources. And since they have a system already in place, saving development resources when they can and need to be used elsewhere is the only logical course of action.

[kukurumei]

You fail to understand that those systems are already in place for the current market wards system, otherwise... guess what? You wouldn't be able to seach through it. They just need to build and extend upon what they already have.

An AH in the context of a MMORPG is NOT the same thing as a webcommerce site. It needs to be integrated in the (a LOT more complex) systems of the MMORPG itself, it needs to be tested in that environment, and it needs not to create glitches/conflicts in that environment/context. Which is a lot more problematic than just slapping an SQL database in the face of the web.

Actually not really... no real glitch as AH is just a database. You're just basically toggling "sell" and "buy" field, and send it off to back end system. It's really very very easy.

All the back end system has to do is toggle their field for the proper play. Nothing different from buying an item from an NPC or any other obvious implementation.

There is no retainer to track, no position to be in, no custom zone to make, nothing, nada. Market ward fail! Nada.

You're trying to argue something that is at it's core, been thoroughly matured in world of business. That's why databases are everywhere and every form. They're so simple, a Mithra can understand it, meow!

It's Microsoft Excel+1, and even a grandmother can do excel with a few lessons.

In fact go steal or read one of the source codes of MMOs out there. Look SQL backend!

[Abriael]

You quite obviously have never worked on a MMO, or have even talked to someone working on a MMO

Your idea of MMO development is so oversimplified, that I wonder where you got it.