Market Wards vs AH

[Abriael]

There is nothing complicated about making an AH, except maybe the backend system to link to the AH. If developers have problems with that, they should be shot with having that kind of coding in a MMO.

An AH is basically a database lookup. Anyone can do it with minimum knowledge, and even steal-able in this day and age. Any old budding web developer would have done it.

It may have been hard two decades ago when you had to actually make something, but these days with SQL databases ready to program. It's a wonder why it's not in next week.

laymen's recipe:
1: have a SQL database
2: program it to have input and output
3: Think up filters that will display what you want
4: It's done, now just draw a GUI around it

Where market wards would probably all kind of insanity, from debugging a retainer, to tracking down it's position, to making sure the server load doesn't go boom.

I have no explaination why people would like the retainer system other then graphics. It's worse then an AH, slower then an AH, and takes more effort to add features then an AH. It's basically getting ripped off by a used car salesman.

You lost me at the "anyone can do it". After that I was too busy laughing

Though, I can provide you with SE's adress. Then you can send them a resume and prove it


(though I would advise not to include in your cover letter this massively oversimplified vision of your perspective job description, I feel it would equally massively reduce your chances to actually prove your worth)

[kukurumei]

You lost me at the "anyone can do it". After that I was too busy laughing

Though, I can provide you with SE's adress. Then you can send them a resume and prove it


(though I would advise not to include in your cover letter this massively oversimplified vision of your perspective job description, I feel it would equally massively reduce your chances to actually prove your worth)

I would but this is the inter-web.

And it proves how you're not realizing what an AH is. And what a SQL database is. And why the web can make shopping portal site in about 2 weeks.

You take in every item ID, you tag it in the fields. You query a filter like search ex: all IDs with swords field. It displays. Done. Then you can put a fancy blue button on it. If you want to get more modern features. you can query the database for all IDs with swords field, and with "levels" numbered field 10-25. Done again.

The database is pre-made. you can find it free, pay a small amount, and even open source versions, etc, etc etc. It's all there. heck you can edit it with the query analyzer tools they provide. MS SQL 200x is a very popular one in the business world.

Some people...geez

[Abriael]

I would but this is the inter-web.

And it proves how you're not realizing what an AH is. And what a SQL database is. And why the web can make shopping portal site in about 2 weeks.

You take in every item ID, you tag it in the fields. You query a filter like search ex: all IDs with swords field. It displays. Done. Then you can put a fancy blue button on it.

You fail to understand that those systems are already in place for the current market wards system, otherwise... guess what? You wouldn't be able to seach through it. They just need to build and extend upon what they already have.

An AH in the context of a MMORPG is NOT the same thing as a webcommerce site. It needs to be integrated in the (a LOT more complex) systems of the MMORPG itself, it needs to be tested in that environment, and it needs not to create glitches/conflicts in that environment/context. Which is a lot more problematic than just slapping an SQL database in the face of the web.

Of course it's not rocket science. But even things that aren't rocket science require plenty development AND QA (people always forget that systems need also to be tested, not just implemented, even more so systems that have to do with the economy) resources. And since they have a system already in place, saving development resources when they can and need to be used elsewhere is the only logical course of action.

[kukurumei]

You fail to understand that those systems are already in place for the current market wards system, otherwise... guess what? You wouldn't be able to seach through it. They just need to build and extend upon what they already have.

An AH in the context of a MMORPG is NOT the same thing as a webcommerce site. It needs to be integrated in the (a LOT more complex) systems of the MMORPG itself, it needs to be tested in that environment, and it needs not to create glitches/conflicts in that environment/context. Which is a lot more problematic than just slapping an SQL database in the face of the web.

Actually not really... no real glitch as AH is just a database. You're just basically toggling "sell" and "buy" field, and send it off to back end system. It's really very very easy.

All the back end system has to do is toggle their field for the proper play. Nothing different from buying an item from an NPC or any other obvious implementation.

There is no retainer to track, no position to be in, no custom zone to make, nothing, nada. Market ward fail! Nada.

You're trying to argue something that is at it's core, been thoroughly matured in world of business. That's why databases are everywhere and every form. They're so simple, a Mithra can understand it, meow!

It's Microsoft Excel+1, and even a grandmother can do excel with a few lessons.

In fact go steal or read one of the source codes of MMOs out there. Look SQL backend!

[Abriael]

You quite obviously have never worked on a MMO, or have even talked to someone working on a MMO

Your idea of MMO development is so oversimplified, that I wonder where you got it.

[kukurumei]

You quite obviously have never worked on a MMO, or have even talked to someone working on a MMO

Your idea of MMO development is so oversimplified, that I wonder where you got it.

Yea...that's your last defensive argument...

How about taking a look at all the private server MMOs out there. YOu can see what it's like yourself..but then you might not like the fact it's less high tech then you think in terms of item ID manipulation.

Sorry bud. But it's not as simple as just shoe horning it in and it magically works. Something as simple as an item being added has the potential to crash an entire server in an extreme case. Anyone remember when the bugged items on peoples Bazaars and retainers would crash zones? Like I said I have seen something as simple as a bugged weapon crash an entire server.

Actually Bazaars are harder to implement then an AH. It's actually connected to a player that has to be track.

An AH is...just there. Look up, toggle, lookup toggle.

Stop trying to devalue AH because you want Market wards to look good.

[Xzen]

Yea...that's your last defensive argument...

How about taking a look at all the private server MMOs out there. YOu can see what it's like yourself..but then you might not like the fact it's less high tech then you think in terms of item ID manipulation.



Actually Bazaars are harder to implement then an AH. It's actually connected to a player that has to be track.

An AH is...just there. Look up, toggle, lookup toggle.

Stop trying to devalue AH because you want Market wards to look good.

I couldn't care less what they call it and most of the features your talking about will likely be added with the system that's currently in place. So whats your deal? It's easier to build on what is already there than it is to scrap it and start from scratch.

[Abriael]

Yea...that's your last defensive argument...

How about taking a look at all the private server MMOs out there.

YOu can see what it's like yourself..but then you might not like the fact it's less high tech then you think in terms of item ID manipulation.

You forgot a little detail. Those private server MMOs have been taken up when the code was already done, finished, polished and tested. You quite evidently have no idea of what it takes to get to that point.

Actually Bazaars are harder to implement then an AH. It's actually connected to a player that has to be track.

Actually Bazars aren't connected to players. They are connected to retainers. And retainers are just code. They aren't independent entities with an AI that may suddenly decide to rebel, you know?
A retainer is nothing else than a module of a database. The implementation is slightly different (you add the items to a retainer, and the retainer's inventory is added to the database as a whole, instead of having you adding the items to the database directly), but not THAT much different.

Every other difference is cosmetic.

Stop trying to devalue AH because you want Market wards to look good.

There's no need to devalue anything. The Market wards ARE an AH with a graphical interface. The only big different is that the Market Wards are already there, an AH has to be done from scratch, and the development and testing resources it would need are better used elsewhere.

Because it's complexity for the sake of complexity.

Why figure out a faster way to carry buckets on your head...when you can carry buckets...with you know hands. It was foolish to carry buckets on your head in the first place anyway, that's why market wards are so bad.

Must be why millions of people in the world carry buckets on their head? Are they all foolish?
What about those that use a yoke? all foolish? What about a truck? What a bunch of fools.

It's not complexity for the sake of complexity. The MW already include features that no AH has.

[Xzen]

Actually not really... no real glitch as AH is just a database. You're just basically toggling "sell" and "buy" field, and send it off to back end system. It's really very very easy.

All the back end system has to do is toggle their field for the proper play. Nothing different from buying an item from an NPC or any other obvious implementation.

There is no retainer to track, no position to be in, no custom zone to make, nothing, nada. Market ward fail! Nada.

You're trying to argue something that is at it's core, been thoroughly matured in world of business. That's why databases are everywhere and every form. They're so simple, a Mithra can understand it, meow!

It's Microsoft Excel+1, and even a grandmother can do excel with a few lessons.

In fact go steal or read one of the source codes of MMOs out there. Look SQL backend!

Sorry bud. But it's not as simple as just shoe horning it in and it magically works. Something as simple as an item being added has the potential to crash an entire server in an extreme case. Anyone remember when the bugged items on peoples Bazaars and retainers would crash zones? Like I said I have seen something as simple as a bugged weapon crash an entire server. Building a system from the ground up takes months to implement and then months more to perfect and get features added.