So if WAR is going to tank as good as PLD...

[Paikis]

I see. I didn't realize some numbers hadn't been released yet. It seems warriors will have great tanking synergy with paladins, and that's great. My first thought when I read the changes was, "Well, having a warrior in party will make Paladins tanks even better."

This is already the case.

- Storm's Eye provides an effective 11% increase to a Paladin's (or other Warrior's) damage (and threat) on the target it is applied to. It is also the combo Warriors must use if they don't want to be either out of TP very fast, or tanking the mob.
- On fights with threat-swapping, the burst nature of a Warrior allows for obscene threat jumps while the Warrior is tanking and the Paladin can ride that huge threat buffer once he takes over.

[Leonus]

I see. I didn't realize some numbers hadn't been released yet. It seems warriors will have great tanking synergy with paladins, and that's great. My first thought when I read the changes was, "Well, having a warrior in party will make Paladins tanks even better."

My first thought was, " I'll stand on almost equal ground as pld now".
Though, I'll have to have the fight committed to memory more in depth than a pld to tank as efficiently. That is if these changes are implemented correctly lol.

[Amyas]

I know people who say pld dps is relatively the same as war dps have the math to back it up, but has anyone seen really high crits for a rage of halone? I've been getting 900 crit butcher's blocks at least twice in every AK run on my War, can someone tell me if their Pld has gotten similar numbers? Of course that's blasting a lot of cooldowns (maim, SE debuff, berserk, internal release, unchained... icr if I had dps gear on or not, think I've had close to that with vit on for sure though), but you'd think that alone would set us over a good chunk over Pld dps.

[Baci]

DPS =|= High Numbers

[Vmage]

Is PLD going to DPS as good as WAR?

they already do.

I know people who say pld dps is relatively the same as war dps have the math to back it up, but has anyone seen really high crits for a rage of halone? I've been getting 900 crit butcher's blocks at least twice in every AK run on my War, can someone tell me if their Pld has gotten similar numbers?

in vit gear with vit allocation i've hit crit halone in the 600s in sword oath, don't think i've seen a 700 yet.

considering sword oath is adding another 50 potency 'weaponskill' hit every auto attack.. which is about the same delay as the gcd... yeah, pretty similar if not better than a 900 butcher block

[Kitru]

you'd think that alone would set us over a good chunk over Pld dps.

No, I wouldn't. Looking at the size of a single hit over the course of an entire fight means next to nothing to DPS. You're talking about a single data point in a fight that could have have well over 1000.

PLD will *never* get the same huge numbers in single blows that a WAR gets. That's not what PLD is designed to get. PLD generates similar damage by throwing out a lot more instances of damage than a WAR does. WAR only gets big numbers because it has fewer attacks. Fight or Flight is disgustingly good because, even though it's only 30% +damage (Unchained is a 33% increase in damage and Berserk is ~40%), it lasts a full 30 seconds (with a 90 sec CD) compared to Berserk which lasts 20 seconds (and has 5 seconds of Pacification, which guts the practical benefit). PLD also gets Circle of Scorn and Spirits Within off-GCD, which amount to an extra 45-50 potency per GCD. WAR's only off-GCD attack is Brutal Swing which, if you use it, amounts to a paltry ~4.16 (it'll shoot up to an *amazing* 6.25 with 2.1).

WAR is about big impressive numbers which is not the same as dealing a lot of damage. PLD generates roughly the same damage without the big numbers because it simply throws out more of them.

[Nobleshield]

I cannot speak to actual gameplay yet as I'm only a level 16 Gladiator, but I actually like that Paladin tanking is the oldschool style of tanking and not this "tanking needs to be engaging" nonsense that has infested WoW and other games. I like having a very simple rotation versus "active mitigation" and the like; I actually stopped tanking in other games because they tried to make tanking more involved, while it actually felt like tanking in this game.

I hope they keep it and don't ruin PLD by making it more involved.

[Tiggy]

Paladin can do very similar DPS to war already. Unless you're talking AoE damage. I don't see how pld can keep up to war when it comes to spamming AoE on a bunch of mobs, but then again that's only really useful in WP runs.

[Paikis]

Warrior damage is spikey, Paladins is more steady. On a fight where both tanks can just stand there and burn (training dummies basically) the Warrior will come out slightly ahead, but with the Paladin riding the Warrior's slashing debuff to parity. They are about the same in terms of DPS on a single target when both are getting the benefit of Storm's Eye.

It is when you have downtime between burns that the Warrior really pulls ahead. The Warrior class is all about trading stuff later, for stuff now. Berserk and Inner Beast exemplify this. With Berserk you actually only gain a small amount of damage over the course of the 25 seconds... but you get all of it in the first 20 seconds. More damage NOW in exchange for less LATER. With Inner beast, you are trading 7% incoming heals over the next 20 seconds for a large heal NOW. Less LATER, more NOW.

If you can fit your entire spike into a 25 second window, does it matter that you're spending the next 10 seconds dodging an AoE? No, because the damage the Paladin is losing by not hitting things constantly, the Warrior has already applied.

[Taaz]

This is already the case.

- Storm's Eye provides an effective 11% increase to a Paladin's (or other Warrior's) damage (and threat) on the target it is applied to. It is also the combo Warriors must use if they don't want to be either out of TP very fast, or tanking the mob.
- On fights with threat-swapping, the burst nature of a Warrior allows for obscene threat jumps while the Warrior is tanking and the Paladin can ride that huge threat buffer once he takes over.

Whut?
Heavy Swing= 70/Maim=60/Storm's Eye=70

Heavy Swing= 70/Skull Sunder=60/Buther's Block=60

The less TP used per rotation is BB, not SE O.o