Is this the future for the rest of ARR's upcoming expansions and updates?

[mbncd]

NM (why are these gones, and the ones that stuck around are now F.A.T.E.s xD )

I seriously have no idea what this is. People keep using this acronymn and the only thing I can come up with is "Normal Modes." Well, Normal Modes are boring. :-P

NM is a reference to Notorious Monsters from FFXI. Basically, uniquely named monsters. HNM is related but not sure what the H stands for.

[Aruseth]

The casual playerbase is paying for the game, same as you. In fact, there are a lot more of them than there are hardcore players. The casual playerbase is also doing your farming, doing most of the consumable crafting (since many of those "casuals" haven't gotten into PvE at all and are focused solely on crafting), and generally making the economy function. It never ceases to amaze me how so-called "hardcore" players (read: people who want to be hardcore, but really aren't) fail to understand the need for casual players. They pay the bulk of the bills. They are the people you ultimately recruit from to fill in spots. They fund your economy - both through gil they earn, alt classes they level, and crafting, etc. In short, the game needs both casuals and hardcore players, and casting aspersions on the casual playerbase is foolish, at best.

I wasn't arguing the need for some casual players just saying just because their casual they shudnt be handed everything to them on a silver platter. and your wrong imo, casual don't pay the bills cause casual don't play for as long as a hardcore player will they will break from the game for extended periods hence not paying the bills. hardcores keep there subscription going play often and rarely take any breaks from the game and if they do their subscription continues. at the end of the day both are needed but don't think because your casual you should have the ability to get what I can as a hardcore player with little to no effort on your part. Life don't work that way and neither should the game. And I don't care if the casual pay for the game as I do. again ill say it if u don't have the time to put in the effort go buy a console game you can beat in a few hours. otherwise stop whining when S**t gets hard and earn the gear and levels etc.

[LiadansWhisper]

I can jump on any legacy server and there market blows. Everyone that came at 50 and the handouts the newbies are receiving is breaking the game just like abyssea did in XI its crap earn your lvls

Come to mine, then. The economy on mine is quite strong. The only issue we're having at the moment is bots crashing the shard/crystal market, but the crystal market has already rebounded.

Twintania is the only content that is hard and once our group gets it down we will one shot it like we do turns 1 through 4. and no the game isn't hard enough as a legacy player other than turn 5 there isn't a single thing to do in the game other than turn 5 and can only be done with 8 ppl for a certain amount of time per day certain days of the week. what to do the other 5 days of the week? nothing cause there isn't anything.

Yes. That is what happens at the end of initial content before a content patch. It happens in every game, btw. It's also important to note that we're doing things somewhat out of order at the moment. They had intended for us to be spending quite some time in Crystal Tower before ever seeing Coils. But because they had to pull Crystal Tower at the last moment and swap in Coils, I'm fairly certain that they lowered the difficulty quite a bit since we're all doing it ostensibly reallllly undergeared.

This is the issue regardless if you have beatne turn 5 or not is irrelavent. Reason being is that turn 5 is the only thing left for hardcore players to do. Outside of turn 5 there is nothing, there is no challenge there is no dynamics to the open world it is stagnant. So you basicly are saying that all the hardcore should do is run turn 5 with nothing else to do on the side that offers any type of challenge?

This happens in every game at the end of a content patch. I'm pretty sure this is the "niche" that the PvP area is supposed to fill in - something for people to do every day of the week, that changes every time, and is still there after you've cleared PvE content. I could be wrong, but that is how it seems to me.

Then again, I don't think that they expected people to rush to level 50 and ignore the experience.

NM stands for notorious Monster, something that you cant solo something that offers a challenge and has a limited spawn rate.

Your idea for open world content is roaming elites? o_O I'll be honest...I really don't find that to be "compelling" content.

Fates maybe in the open world but they dont present any type of challenge it is nothing more than a zerg fest, they are practically useless to a level cap player.

The fact that they don't present a challenge and the fact that they are practically useless to a level cap player (outside of leveling alt classes/jobs) are two separate issues. The first (the lack of challenge) is due to the zerging that's going on, and that's regrettable but I don't know how SE could fix it, tbh. Even the item gathering fates end up a zerg fest. The second (lack of use to level cap players) is something that could be addressed by SE. And probably needs to be addressed by SE. The issue is, if Fates start dropping useful items, the zerg fests will probably become even more intense.

Danger dose not exist in XIV due to everything being leashed and there are no mobs above the current level cap. There is nothing to threaten high level players. Even instanced dungeons are linear and boring they dont present any challenge (other than coil) they never change and are always the same.

Two things:

1) Mobs leash because people are jerks. That's pretty much it in a nutshell. People are griefing jerks, and unfortunately mobs need to leash or you have some asshat running level 50 mobs over a group of brand new players, destroying their experience (which is, incidentally, another reason why you can't interact with mobs in another person's Leves, nor can you engage mobs in a Fate if it's far below your level and you have not level synced).

2) Dungeons do not change, but people do. There are a myriad of ways to put flavor and spice into your dungeon run, but you have to think outside of the box. Personally, I recommend taking three scholars and a tank to WP and doing a speed run. Alternatively, you could do a "Relic-Only" run....where you run with just your Relic. And nothing else. >.>

We dont need quest chains what we need is a game that dosent hand everyone, everything, we need something that presents a challenge, something players have to actually work to earn not give hand outs to those who dont want to put time and effort into something. Nothing in XIV holds any value.

Really? Well, that's your opinion, but it's not one I share. I'm proud of the classes that I've leveled, and the time I've put into gearing them and learning how to play them. I'm proud of the things I make with my crafts, and I find it interesting and engaging. You're not required to share my opinions, of course, but that doesn't make them any less valid than yours.

Casuals will only stay so long before the next big shiny game appears at that point probably 50% will bail, than that leaves the mid to hardcore base, but seeing there is nothing for the mid to hardcore why should they stay?

This is an assumption, it isn't fact. "Casual" has a variety of definitions, but when I speak of "casual" players, I'm referring to people for whom raiding is not the center of their game experience. Those players may be more attracted to dungeons, or crafting, or even role play. Maybe they really enjoy leveling, or have a thing for playing the Marketboards, or they really like exploring. Maybe they play to hang out with their friends exclusively. Casual players are finding things to do every day, long after the hardcore" players who rushed to 50 but skipped the actual content burn out. Casual players tend to play on a casual basis - a few hours a week - but they keep their subs intact.

BTW, a lot of "hardcore" raiders also bail at the first sign of a shiny new game, so it runs both ways.

Currently there is no reason to play more than once a week and thats is sad, because sooner or later a game that hardcore players can appreciate will appear and if you lose your mid to hardcore as well as half your casual base the game is going in the toilet and no amount of changes that Yoshi could do will bring them back. This game fail once already, this is SE second attempt and if it dosent work players wont give them a third chance.

There's no reason for you to play more than once a week. There's more than enough reason for me to have logged in every day this week. Personally, this is one of the best games I've seen in years and I very much like the direction it's going in. Would I like more content? Oh yes! But this is also very early in the game's new life, and I understand that it's going to take a while for the game to settle.

If you cant put in the time to get the good stuff then no you don't deserve to have it! Take your weak sauce back to Wow where you belong.

LOL. I'm pretty sure I've spent more time raiding than you have playing any games at all. And, btw, I do agree that the raiding content is somewhat lackluster - primarily because it's nowhere near as difficult as hardmode raiding in WoW. But sure...I'm just weaksauce. *pats*

[LiadansWhisper]

I wasn't arguing the need for some casual players just saying just because their casual they shudnt be handed everything to them on a silver platter.

Never said they should. But they deserve access to the content just like you, and they are just as interested in rewards for the efforts they put into the game - and deserve them equally as much as you do so long as they put in the effort. They may not get there as fast as you do, but that doesn't mean that when they DO get there, they shouldn't be able to get the same shinies you did the first week.

and your wrong imo, casual don't pay the bills cause casual don't play for as long as a hardcore player will they will break from the game for extended periods hence not paying the bills.

Hardcore players do this, too. In fact, they do this more often, because they tend to consume the content at a much higher pace than casual players do. Thus, casual players normally end up being much more reliable, in terms of sub revenue, because they still have things left to do after the hardcore players have cleared every boss and gotten bored.

hardcores keep there subscription going play often and rarely take any breaks from the game

This is not true.

and if they do their subscription continues.

And neither is this.

It isn't true in WoW, SWTOR, Rift, or this game. No one likes to pay for something they're not using, and hardcore raiders are not somehow "addicted" to the game more than more casual players. Sorry, but it's just not accurate.

at the end of the day both are needed but don't think because your casual you should have the ability to get what I can as a hardcore player with little to no effort on your part.

I'm pretty sure if you were as hardcore as you like to claim, you'd have Twintania down, just like if I was seriously hardcore I'd have Heroic Garrosh down on 25 man on 5 alts. But alas, neither of us are really, truly that hardcore. That said, no one has ever asked for equal access to the rewards that are only found in Coils (well, beyond a few very silly people, but they are and should be ignored for such silliness). That does not, however, mean that the entirety of the game should be predicated on the wants and desires of "hardcore" players. This is not a hardcore game, and was not advertised as such. It's very clear that the game is aimed at a mix of players, with different skills and interests - which is a good thing, because it's going to make SE a lot more money in the long run.

Life don't work that way and neither should the game. And I don't care if the casual pay for the game as I do. again ill say it if u don't have the time to put in the effort go buy a console game you can beat in a few hours. otherwise stop whining when S**t gets hard and earn the gear and levels etc.

I haven't seen any "casual" players whining about the content. But I have seen you whining that there's nothing to do. It isn't even a question of having the same rewards - where did I ever, ever say that a casual player should have the same in-game rewards as a hardcore raider? Because I never said that. What I said is that by looking down on and spitting on casual players, and acting like somehow their presence is ruining the game and how dare SE actually aim content at those dirty, worthless players, you're doing yourself a disservice. You're also doing the hardcore raiding community a disservice because you are exactly the kind of elitist that people point to when they say that the hardcore community is ruining the game (it's not, but you're busily digging as deep a hole as possible).

[Reslin]

If you cant put in the time to get the good stuff then no you don't deserve to have it! Take your weak sauce back to Wow where you belong.

Not wanting to play a grind fest =/= being weak. Sorry. There's people who only play an hour a day out there that are better than you at gaming. Time consuming does not mean difficult. If you think time sinks = difficulty please learn to play. Asking for certain things to be harder is fine. I don't want more time sinks. I want an actual challenge.

Also as to your statement that hardcore players pay the bill? Sorry, wrong. According to satistics blizzard stated only 4% of their player base even completed MC back in vanilla. Guess what? 4% of WoW's numbers was a pittance. That means 96% of their playerbase are casual. If all 96% decided to take a break their population wouldn't be near what it is now.

P.S. If time consuming = Difficult I assure you FF11 was a very casual game compared to EQ. You can't end up losing everything you've earned by dying. Wiping on a raid boss in EQ could have disastrous consequences.

Also while we're on the topic of what mmo is more hardcore. Do you play EvE? Darkfall? Ultima Online? Mortal? My point is that to someone else you're always going to be the "Casual" here. I've stopped being hardcore and there's nothing wrong with being casual. Catering to the casuals as you put it is the best business decision you can make unless you build your mmo from the ground up to be hardcore. Even then EvE is the only one who has managed to successfully tap that audience. No other hardcore mmo has come close. If you put gates at the end game that only the hardcore have access too and release a leveling curve only catering to those who can put the time in the casuals are now just going to turn to other games in which do cater to their experience. There's more competition these days than back then.

P.S.S. I completely disagree with your assessment that hardcore players play the longest and don't take a break from a game. Aren't they the same players who complete content first, complain there is none, and then jump ship to the next game/wait for the next patch? They've even been this way on WoW. Unless you make an extreme leveling curve it will always be this way. Hardcore jump ship first. You want a game with an extreme leveling curve? ESO is just right around the corner. 16 hours to get to level 8. Have fun.

[Borfin]

I always find it funny when people seem to think that hardcore raiders spend any more time in the game than anyone else.

I raided hardcore for 8 years and spent maybe an average of 4-6 hours a week playing depending on the guild I was in.

"Hardcore" players have jobs and lives too. Promise.

[Hyrist]

I'm going to be as inoffensive as I can.

The people who are clamoring for open world content need to be very concise in the way they want it, or they need to hit the door. Because right now, there is nothing in the system that can support true open world content, nor does it really encourage it outside of the FATE and Leve systems.

Let me give a brief breakdown.

1. Claims - there's no such thing as them. Quest credits are given to all who can deal a certain amount of damage. Damage is accessible to all who can clam. AoE effects all in the area. Every NM system in the game is, and will be encompassed within FATEs. Meaning there is zero way the traditional world boss claim system can be implemented without undermining the very fundamentals the system is built on. If we alter the fundamentals of claiming, then we're effectively turning this into a different game.

2. Danger vs Accessibility - It has been made very clear that the open world zones are to be accessible to all players. That means enemies will leash, and monster zones will not become too dangerous for the exploration of a single adventurer. This means any open circumstance that involves a valued target is going to be just as crowded as Behemoth and Odin are now. As it is, those two FATES are already both suffering from myriad problems from model prioritization to zone/client crashing from congestion. There is virtually no way a true open world content of high desirability will not become a zerg fest.

Any other situation of implementation becomes semi-instancing, such as Leves, which would work ,but in no way implement the full on "Open World" Content people are clamoring for.

I'm sorry, but the game just doesn't support it, not in game mechanics, system management, or philosophy.

The best they could do, without reconstructing the game again would be to meet people halfway, such as shared 'instances' like FFXI's current Dynamis structure, or in a force-pop method like Leves or the X-NM mechanics.

The true open world systems like Sky, Sea, and Ground Kings? That's not going to happen. Best you're going to get in those situations is the large FATES like we have now. That argument has already been brought up and shot down by Yoshida in more than one interview.

[DSN]

I feel the same as you op, this game needs more open world content. More end game open world content to be exact...

Kind of hard the world is pretty small when compared to other games. If you are a crafter who farms their own materials you learn this really fast.
There some materials that drop from one specific enemy and there are 6 in the entire game all in one spot over farmed / botted / camped, the solution to this is to have more than one camp for these enemies but they are out of space already.

[Babydoll]

The true open world systems like Sky, Sea, and Ground Kings? That's not going to happen. Best you're going to get in those situations is the large FATES like we have now. That argument has already been brought up and shot down by Yoshida in more than one interview.

Can you post where he totally shot them down? If I knew this I would have left a long time ago, I am not saying I don't believe you, I just want to see it for myself so I can go be sad ; ; Large scale FATE things are NOTHING like sky, sea, or NM. FATE is a spam fest with no thinking involved..it is only for EXP and drops nothing game breaking..it is a sad, pathetic filler and slap in the face to the folks wanting real NM content. It is a waste of time end game...no one really uses it outside of leveling up. I would never consider it end game replacement for NM/etc...that is a joke.


Me hating FATE though is just a personal opinion. I don't even like it for exp lol. I enjoy using my brain and having to use strategy...

Kind of hard the world is pretty small when compared to other games. If you are a crafter who farms their own materials you learn this really fast.
There some materials that drop from one specific enemy and there are 6 in the entire game all in one spot over farmed / botted / camped, the solution to this is to have more than one camp for these enemies but they are out of space already.

I know right? ; ; It is very pretty, but so very small.

[Maxthunder]

[QUOTE=Hyrist;1615430] snip


Yoshi's design choice in the in may well be his own companies collaspe, only time will tell. I remind you of what Yoshi had stated at one point and that was; he wants to attract a broad audience. Now currently he has catered to one side, so I find it hard to believe he wants to cater to A Broad Audience. Based of his design and what he has planned so far seems to be far from that.

I would say he made a bad design choice and has limited XIV due to the fact if at some point he did need to change course, he could not because of the design choice. He can include content for all he can include open world content for all if he wants too. In order to stand by what he stated about attracting a broad audience, he should include content even if it isnt accesible at 1st to the casuals due to the fact he also stated he would nerf the old content. So yes he could add the requests content in the open world and it would at some point benefit everyone, but than he will need to address his design to allow that. XIV needs to be more flexible than how it is currently design to be so ridgid. In the end it would be best to design XIV to be more flexible in any new expansions and or updates, to include true open world content regardless. You must take the good with the bad. Even now in the current XIV we have those that abuse others but that should not deter Yoshi or other players from not having true open world content. The community and Yoshi, can ensure that the players who wish to abuse things are removed from the game.

Than of course if subs keep dropping due to his design choice we may get our wish sooner than later, as this game can not flop again but we wont know for at least another 9 months. Best advice for everyone keep an open mind, look for possibilities, and dont throw away good ideas because players dont like them or care for them, this is what will help ensure the game continue's to be strong as well as grow.