melee dps buffs + bard nerf = cumulative effect too much?

[Luso]

Or you could change the dungeon to not require a particular form of cc which most classes do not have access to...

Not sure what kind of cc you're talking about? Crowd Controls are distributed on multiple classes. I'm not sure if there is a cc that is only locked to 1 class/job.

[Bardo]

...snip...

The problem is, nearly ALL that extra utility is 99% worthless in 4 man content.
So while it may make up for lower dps in raids, it leaves us short any time there is a DPS requirement in a 4 man.
(Ever tried Demon Wall with 2 ilvl50 geared Bards? Ifrit HM with 4 Bards? Yet the duty finder continues to create these multi-bard groups which will be even MORE impossible after a DPS nerf...)

You can't balance a class entirely around raiding and ignore the rest of the game...
There's got to be a better compromise.

[Charas]

Its just the start, after brd is where ppl want it, then its time to aim at next class to bash on, this is a never ending storry.. And SE is sure as hell gonna follow it up.

Bard was already where most Bard users wanted it. Only a bunch of jealous crying babies went on a forum rampage until they got the nerf they asked for, aiming the class they are so jealous of. If you ask me, the sad thing is to know that SE does listen to this loud minority.

[Phai]

Bard was already where most Bard users wanted it. Only a bunch of jealous crying babies went on a forum rampage until they got the nerf they asked for, aiming the class they are so jealous of. If you ask me, the sad thing is to know that SE does listen to this loud minority.

Agree on the point that Brd is at a fine spot atm, utility and a bit lower dps than other dps (coil)
Class Balance for coil has nothing to do whit its dps, and sadly for melee classes and pug grp's i think the cross class tweak will do them no good. All its good for is the satisfaction ppl get from the word nerf.

[MomoOG]

There is a simple rule when it comes to class balance in every MMO that has come out over the last decade. The class that is perceived by the masses to be the most OP initially (BRD) is always nerfed into the ground and remains at the bottom for a long time. The class that is perceived to be the most UP initially is always buffed (WAR and possible DRG/MNK) into god status and stays there for a long time. Again, this is "perceived" and not what might the actual objective state of balance. Never set your heart on the perceived OP class before the first class balance patch because you will always be disappointed.

[Ryel]

The problem is, nearly ALL that extra utility is 99% worthless in 4 man content.
So while it may make up for lower dps in raids, it leaves us short any time there is a DPS requirement in a 4 man.
(Ever tried Demon Wall with 2 ilvl50 geared Bards? Ifrit HM with 4 Bards? Yet the duty finder continues to create these multi-bard groups which will be even MORE impossible after a DPS nerf...)

You can't balance a class entirely around raiding and ignore the rest of the game...
There's got to be a better compromise.

I agree with you, the problem is more so the emphasis on 4 man content that is the issue, if the average low man queue was say... 5-6 for example you would have room for a straight support class.

This is why i say BRD is in a awkward position, because as long as DPS race type fights like Demon Wall exist it's always going to be bounced back and forth, either it's DPS will be too high at the cost of support or it's support and utility will be too high at the cost of it's DPS hindering it's spot in a 4 man group.

It cant have too much of both and it cant have not enough of either.

Not saying it cant be balanced it's just hard to find (like you said) a middle ground for a semi-support to keep pace damage wise with full a on DPS class and retain it's utility by nature.

[Mitski]

The problem is, nearly ALL that extra utility is 99% worthless in 4 man content.
So while it may make up for lower dps in raids, it leaves us short any time there is a DPS requirement in a 4 man.
(Ever tried Demon Wall with 2 ilvl50 geared Bards? Ifrit HM with 4 Bards? Yet the duty finder continues to create these multi-bard groups which will be even MORE impossible after a DPS nerf...)

You can't balance a class entirely around raiding and ignore the rest of the game...
There's got to be a better compromise.

Other classes are requesting balance changes to justify a single spot for their class in a group. You are complaining because 4x BRD (undedrgeared) may not be viable... that's ridiculous. You could make a valid argument for not allowing 4x BRD in duty finder, but that's a duty finder problem not a class balance problem.

[Songkla]

Bard was already where most Bard users wanted it. Only a bunch of jealous crying babies went on a forum rampage until they got the nerf they asked for, aiming the class they are so jealous of. If you ask me, the sad thing is to know that SE does listen to this loud minority.

Quit your crying. Nerf is coming. Deal with it.

[Bardo]

Other classes are requesting balance changes to justify a single spot for their class in a group. You are complaining because 4x BRD (undedrgeared) may not be viable... that's ridiculous. You could make a valid argument for not allowing 4x BRD in duty finder, but that's a duty finder problem not a class balance problem.

Undergeared? No. NOT overgeared? YES.

I'm sorry, but you're just flat wrong here.
It's a class balance problem.
There are no other DD classes that suffer from the same issue in 4mans.

Making the DF intentionally separate bards (while still allowing multiples of other DD classes) isn't acceptable.
It would take EVEN LONGER to get into DF groups as bard than any other DD.
That is NOT a solution.
Possibly if the DF ignored multiples of every class, but then everyone would probably be in for much longer wait times.

Listen, I'm not trying to say that Bard isn't too strong in raids, or that changes don't need to be made.
All I'm saying is that if you fix one area of the game but make another even worse than it already is, then that's not balance.
If the DF is going to continue to consider Bard to be a DD, and Bard DPS is going to continue to be lower than other DD's to compensate for to Raid support/utility, then they need to make some of that support/utility actually functional in 4 mans as well.
Right now the only real support that can compensate for a lack of damage is Foe, so we would have to be paired with a BLM or SMN. That leaves a lot of group setups short of DD requirements.

[Charas]

Quit your crying. Nerf is coming. Deal with it.

I m not crying at all, just writing a true statement, it s definitly accurate to say that at least 90% of the bard users were happy with their class as it was (or still is). Looks like you are annoyed by me, but it s ok you know, i can understand, seeing all your posts in this thread, that once again you are jealous of a Bard. Your tipycal premade answer won t make u appear more clever. You aren t bringing anything to the discussion, have clearly no idea about what you are talking about... what are u doing here anyway?