Repose in dungeons?

[Aerostein]

Repose is a great ability early to mid-game. Most tanks take so much damage early on, so it helps. Has some uses in a few cases at end game too, if you're doing a normal run and the tank is taking damage at an alarming rate. Unfortunately, even if you do make macros, most people will wake them up regardless.
If I'm to be honest, it's not like most black mages even bother to use their CC anyway, so the CC falls on you in most normal cases.

[Garnatian]

My advice to you OP is tell your group that you will sleep in order to help them(Less damage people take, the more DPS you can do, the faster the run will be.)

How did you come up with that logic? You can't AoE because you'll simply wake up the target, therefore less DPS and consequently longer pack kills.


Repose is the tool of a lazy and terrible Healer. If you want to use it, go ahead, but don't try to justify it as if it helps the group.

[Ghishlain]

How did you come up with that logic? You can't AoE because you'll simply wake up the target, therefore less DPS and consequently longer pack kills.


Repose is the tool of a lazy and terrible Healer. If you want to use it, go ahead, but don't try to justify it as if it helps the group.

You act like every group composition is a WHM PLD BRD BLM. In non-level 50 duty finder randoms, this is generally never the case and thus Repose is an infinitely better tool in mitigating damage. Even the at level greens puts you (more or less) at the level cap of the dungeon and they still are better then synced DL gear. Therefore, you can't over gear for it like you can for WP or AK and burn through the dungeon as efficiently as you would with a iLvl70+ group running for Mythology farming.

In end game instances where being over geared up the ying yang is standard, Repose does lose its luster because your tanks and DPS can take damage and not give a flying care about it. Your cures are OP and your tank takes so little damage anyway you can DPS for the majority of the run anyway. On top of the fact that many of the mobs found in these instances are immune to sleep, thus the utility of a sleep is lost.

In early end game dungeons where a lot of classes don't have their toolkits fully developed and not every class even has access to an AoE, sleeps combined with 2.5 DPS (since the healer can DPS more readily) will drop groups faster than trying to AoE burn them down. If you happen to get a 2x THM or BLM, then that might change, otherwise, stick to the single targets.

You know, I think a lot of players would do well to downgrade their gear (like run AK in WP drops) just to keep themselves sharp and/or humble.

A couple of my friends and I have thought of brushing off the old AF gear + primal weapon + HQ 49 accessories and see how we can handle AK / WP for fun. If it does happen, I'll let you know how it goes.

[Swordphobic]

Just please, don't be obsessive about repose, seen some tank deaths because the healer was busy casting repose instead of healing the burst. If you have a BLM sure, they can do more damage than you, but no one dies if they sleep someone. You on the other hand can cause a tank death if you waste 2 GCDs on repose during pull.

[PetiteMalFleur]

If DPS was sleeping the mobs I assume you had a BLM. They have an aoe sleep and this may be why they told you not to sleep the mobs. Crowd control is great in lower level dungeons. I've use it to keep my party alive, especially when someone accidentally aggros a second pack of mobs.

I've done some dps in CC but quite frankly I usually don't have time in lower level dungeons. Most parties are not overgeared for content at those levels and need the healing support.

[Simaril]

How did you come up with that logic? You can't AoE because you'll simply wake up the target, therefore less DPS and consequently longer pack kills.


Repose is the tool of a lazy and terrible Healer. If you want to use it, go ahead, but don't try to justify it as if it helps the group.

If you're the only one AoEing, then your dps is better - but how much does it really increase the group's dps? Your AoE damage better be good, because if you're AoEing, then the healer is probably contributing next to 0 dps because the tank is taking lots of damage. If your tank and other DPS aren't AoEing, then your increase in DPS might not be more than what you lost from the healer.

[Delvish]

Pre-50 dungeons and at level runs, sleep does really well as does other CC methods. Once people are overgeared, it doesn't matter though and AoEs are much more useful. There are some groups of course where this is not so.
Tank/Heal/MNKs (I'm pretty sure mnk doesn't have much in the way of AoE...)
Tank/SCH/SMN/BLM (SCH+SMN Bane DoTs will not break sleep so BLM can sleep and burn targets 1 by 1 while SCH+SMN DoT to death).
Tank/WHM/SMN/SMN (Same as above, WHM sleeping)
Most other combination of DPS will probably find more use out of AoEs, but particularly in DF not everything is so clear cut. Remember to change and adapt to the setup as each run is different.

[Tzain]

On the subject on AOE, After playing Black Mage and white mage to 50....I still don't get what everyone is so obsessed about.
I mean, if we're talking about a swarm of 5-8 mobs that have low health and need to burn down? (Aurum Vale Seedlings) Then YES! accept no substitutes. But on 3 or less mobs I just don't see the amount of damage done as being that much more useful than just focus firing a target. I did some napkin math and single target with average proc rates of firestarter had about 3 times the potency/second of Fire II and that's not even taking into consideration the mana efficiency and how long your burn phase is. Generally speaking 4 mobs seems like the bare minimum to make fire II worth casting.

If the healer cant contribute to the total damage done because of Fire II breaking CC then that's just a double whammy of inefficiency.

(If memory serves, the potency/second of Fire II was 33, the potency/second on Fire I + Firestarter procs was 99 when adjusted for GCD and % rates.)

Of course, I freely admit to being pretty bad at black magery, so most likely I'm doing it wrong.

[Simaril]

On the subject on AOE, After playing Black Mage and white mage to 50....I still don't get what everyone is so obsessed about.
I mean, if we're talking about a swarm of 5-8 mobs that have low health and need to burn down? (Aurum Vale Seedlings) Then YES! accept no substitutes. But on 3 or less mobs I just don't see the amount of damage done as being that much more useful than just focus firing a target. I did some napkin math and single target with average proc rates of firestarter had about 3 times the potency/second of Fire II and that's not even taking into consideration the mana efficiency and how long your burn phase is. Generally speaking 4 mobs seems like the bare minimum to make fire II worth casting.

If the healer cant contribute to the total damage done because of Fire II breaking CC then that's just a double whammy of inefficiency.

(If memory serves, the potency/second of Fire II was 33, the potency/second on Fire I + Firestarter procs was 99 when adjusted for GCD and % rates.)

Of course, I freely admit to being pretty bad at black magery, so most likely I'm doing it wrong.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking. I was hoping someone might show why AoE is better or worse in a given circumsatance. I'm also afraid that my lack of experience as a Blm means I'm missing something???

[Kal-El]

If people are breaking CC just leave it. No point.

Pre 50 I'd say sleep but warn your tank but you've gotta remember that if you're busting out cures like mad while a mob is asleep it's gonna turn on you straight away. If I see a slept mob and the healer is getting close to stealing hate I'll be comboing that and you can cast repose as much as you like but I won't stop till I'm comfortable with aggro.

Majority of times you'll find it's the DPS that usually break sleep. But remember again a WAR can only fire off a few flashes before he's got to overpower. So maybe wait till he's done that a few times before sleeping?