Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[Taitoru]

well let say "mountain buster" is 4000 damage
heal II for 1500 hp

PLD hp 6000
PLD take "mountain buster" (4000*80%)= 3200 damage
PLD Hp remain 6000 - 3200 = 2800 = 46% HP remain
PLD get heal after that 2800 + 1500 = 4300 = 71% HP remain

WAR hp 8000
WAR take "Mountain buster" 4000 damage
WAR Hp remain 8000 - 4000 = 4000 = 50% HP remain
WAR get heal after that 4000 + (1500*120%) = 5800 = 72.5% HP remain

lol wtf are you even learn math?
why PLD hp 6000 and WAR are 8000 ?

if your base hp is 6000 WAR with defiance is 6000+25%(1500) = 7500

WAR hp 7500 take 4000 damage , HP 7500 - 4000 = 3500 = 47% hp remain
WAR get heal by Cure2 3500 + 1500*120% = 5300 = 70% hp remain

[Schizophrenia]

Jobs can't and should never be balanced around mediocre players and performance. It needs to be balanced around perfect execution of the class.

Doesn't work that way. Jobs will never be balanced around the best players/execution possible, because so few people can achieve that. It has been and will always be balanced around the average.

[Phreak]

I don't see how the 20% Defiance is equivalent to Shield Oath. Shield Oath still seems much better to me.

Shield Oath stops 20% of damage from coming in altogether. Less stress on healers because the damage never took place.

Defiance adds 20% percent to incoming heals after the fact. There's still a ton of stress on Mister WHM over there to pour those heals on.

Can someone explain why those two are supposedly equivalent even though WAR requires a healer to take advantage of this "mitigation"?

They're not, the healing buff would have to be 25%.

[Devils]

Are you somehow "handicapped"? The Healers were in DL/AK as well(to get their Relics) and Garuda/Titan Weaps...
There is nothing on Titan that can one/twoshot you...NOTHING. Mountain Buster are the only "dangerous" moments, but people know when they are coming, so I get Stoneskin and Adloquouium before it hits and I barely get below 50% HP...Virus, Eye for an Eye, Rain of Death...all ways to lower the dmg as well...

You must be in a FC with some really bad players...according to your description a WAR would never be able to tank Twintanie on Death Sentence ever...which has been done several times (with said Stoneskin/Adloquouium) tactics...if you can't rely on your group to do whatever they can to help mitigate damage, don't bother trying Twintania...you will never succeed.

You win, me and my FC are just idiots and obviously the WAR tank was just fine as it is and the changes aren't needed and we are now going to be OP as it allows us idiots to complete content we shouldn't.

Re-rolling PLD..........

[TaneshimaPopura]

@ Phreak

Wrong +20% effective healing is as good as -20% damage received. One is Post damage "mitigation" the other being Pre Damage Mitigation. So far this coming change will put Warriors at a 5% Max HP advantage, but as I said it is still no where better than Shield Oath simply cause it is Post DMG Mitigation.

You cannot look the heals by Max HP %. A Warrior and Paladin both with 50% DMG reduction taking a 5000 DMG hit. Base HP of 5000.
Warrior has 6250 HP takes 2500 DMG has 3750 HP left Healed for 1000 ends up with 4950HP
Paladin has 5000 HP takes 2500-20% DMG has 3000 HP left Healed for 1000 ends up with 4000 HP

They take a hit again and left with 2450 HP healed back up to 3650 HP on Warrior 2000 HP healed back up to 3000 HP on Paladin
They take a hit again and left with 1150 HP healed back up to 2350 HP on Warrior 1000 HP Healed back up to 2000 HP on Paladin
They take the final Blow left with -150HP on Warrior unable to be healed whilst the Paladin dies exactly with 2000 HP unable to be healed.

This shows that Shield Oath is stronger than Defiance? No. Cause if Defiance Healing increase was Pre DMG mitigation (aka Healed for the extra 20% -200HP before he took the damage) he would have survived with 50 HP left. Hence Defiance has a lead so long as you don't die due to max HP. People are doing the Defiance math wrong all the time.

But as a tank you would ask me which one would I prefer? I'd say Shield Oath cause it gives healers less heart attacks, and if such above scenario occur where a little less DMG taken could have saved the Paladin and not the Warrior. I'm talking small damage like 2 point worth of damage would meant -148 HP on Warrior and 1 HP remaining on Paladin.

[Greeve]

Mitigation is always better than more hp and self heals and +heal%. They need to change this aspect of war if its going to be competitive down the road. PLD will still get better results and have an easier time doing it without haveing to constantly be worrying about buff/debuff uptime...

[TaneshimaPopura]

@ Devils

That is probably the most stupid masochistic shit I've heard. In case you didn't know, Titan always does Landslide > Rock Buster > Mountain Buster so you can always time your CD to mitigate Rock and Mountain Buster throw yourself a Stoneskin if you are that worried well as a Paladin. And don't come telling me healers will be busy then cause Tumult is still some time away, when they see that big ass Landslide they can shoot of mitigation or damage reduction as they see fit.

Pretty much the same for Twintania, your survival as a Warrior depended on these people doing debuffs and doing preemptive mitigation. Whereas a Paladin can use his own tools to get by hence stressing less on healers and DPS. However you look at it, it still promotes "bad play". One being the Warrior or the 7 other party members by being the Paladin. Still you wouldn't have enough CD's to be able to go through all the Death Sentences with a safety net in Twintania.

Just like the days when Eye for and Eye, Virus is down you're going to take that 4500 DMG Mountain Buster on Titan, if you're lucky that bard would have done Rain of Death to make it 4050 damage and if you pop everything and lucky enough to get a parry take I'd say probably 2750 DMG? Whereas the Paladin just pops a Rampart gets a block and the Mountain Buster only hits for 1200 DMG (around 1050 DMG if there was a Rain of Death). If he was Twintania capable MT he would take no damage with a WHM Stoneskin. Where you probably still take 1250 damage at 8000 HP defiance 1600 Stoneskin.

Now do tell me if you surviving by the skin of your teeth doesn't rely on the hard work of all your other 7 party members instead of being SELF SUFFICIENT and pop a CD that is DECENT.

[Vortok]

Nice changes. Warrior will be even easier to play poorly than now (aside from the few that didn't get the memo and blow their Wrath stacks constantly right now), which'll make it feel even more rewarding to play well. A mediocre WAR will still be worse than a mediocre PLD. We'll have to see what changes, if any, come to PLD to judge how the classes will compare with good players.

Holmgang is an emergency button for things like being at half health or lower when mountain buster is about to go off. Hallowed Ground actually lightens the healing load and lets healers catch up, and is thus still a much stronger tanking cooldown. If you aren't getting heals than being at 1 HP at the end of Holmgang just means you died a couple seconds later. If you never hit 1 HP during Holmgang, it essentially did nothing but root you in place for the duration. Hallowed Ground always does 'something' as long as there is damage coming in (sans the couple of mechanics that hit through it).

PLD still has better cooldowns, the gap is just smaller now.

I agree with what I saw someone suggest for Mercy Stroke - it'd be better if it gave the heal if the mob dies within 2-5 seconds of using it. Trying to get a killing blow as a tank (especially with Defiance damage penalty) is a bit of a tall task. It does mean that currently I get to do a mental fistpump when I do get that killing blow though, haha.

[TouchandFeel]

I agree with what I saw someone suggest for Mercy Stroke - it'd be better if it gave the heal if the mob dies within 2-5 seconds of using it. Trying to get a killing blow as a tank (especially with Defiance damage penalty) is a bit of a tall task.

I agree with this fully. It is just two small of a margin especially with the rest of your party attacking. This would also make it a much more useful and viable cross class skill.

[whiskeybravo]

I agree with what I saw someone suggest for Mercy Stroke - it'd be better if it gave the heal if the mob dies within 2-5 seconds of using it.

I don't have any issue with making it a little better, but a 2-5 second extension means pretty much 100% success and it shouldn't be 100%. Why not just give the WAR Lustrate for that matter.