Why is there still so much to do at end game?

[Fyce]

There are a few kind of MMO players:

The ones playing the most efficiently, thinking that they will be rewarded with fun in the end game.
The ones playing for the fun, thinking that their reward is simply enjoying early and mid game content as it comes.

The first ones are the hardest people to satisfy, because they often rush through content, playing in a grinding and boring way while expecting the company behind the game to be able to provide them with some kind of "promised land" after all this work... a land they will probably rush through anyway. They (the players) admit it themselves "grinding is boring" (e.g. doing FATE groups is not fun, but it's efficient).
It means that the content made by the company before the end game stuff/dungeon/boss is worth almost nothing. They didn't get the "reward" they are looking for while doing this early game content.

In the other hand, the second group of players are more of the solo ones, who will try two, three times to pass a battle by doing some solo-queue in instances. They are the people who get locked behind a boss-room-wall because they were looking at this long cut-scene. They will be the ones looking online at a list of little so called "useless pets" by the first group of players, and then try to obtain them just because they're cute.
They often see a dude with super epic shiney stuff and are a bit jealous because... well, it's shiney, but they don't really care that much about obtaining that stuff, because they are not playing a game to be efficient, they're playing it because it gives them some fun even at level 30-40.


Those two kinds of people don't understand each other and the first will laugh about the second for being attracted with "non efficient" and "non en game" content while the second will laugh at the first for not taking the time of enjoying every bit of content the game provide.
The first ones will even blame the second group for holding them back and making the company behind the game doing some pointless stuff instead of improving "their end game content". And they are not wrong: it's because of the second group that MMO doesn't start directly with the "end game" (...which makes little sense, but you understand). That's why the charts someone posted earlier show that the vast majority of characters are more level 15 to 30 than they are 50. Average character level is around 18-20.


So, can we expect, one day, that people will understand the tastes and objectives of the others?
Don't count on it. People are different, and they will stay that way. You won't suddenly make a "hardcore gamer" enjoy casual play, and you won't make a "casual gamer" work in a game to reach maximum efficiency for the end game content.

You can't satisfy both. Deal with it.

[amnie]

rant about two kinds of MMO players....

no. just no. you picked out the two extremes. nothing else.

I can assure you I very much so enjoy BOTH. I absolutely love being a competative raider, beating the hardest content in-game, getting 'all the shinies' to show off THAT I beat said content... and I love collecting pets, getting achievements, exploring the whole world, crafting, just socialising... I am just a little slower to reach the end game, because i'm taking my time to level up. but once I reach the max level I am very much so interested in finding 'the real challenge' (whatever that means)
it's just not my top priority, especially in a new game where I've NEVER played a game that didn't have people complain a week in that there was 'nothing to do'
(apparently RIFT throws out content left and right, and even that game is struggling heavily, so how exactly is end game content the be all end all of a game? the WHOLE PACKAGE has to be good to keep people drawn in)

the problem is when the people that are part of those two extremes 'clash', because no matter what, as soon as you say somethign that doesn't belong to their side, they will automatically act like you belong to the other extreme.

nobody here is saying that there isn't a lot missing that they'd love to see. my list is sheer endless, and some future content is giving me a headache already (hello marriage system!)
but that doens't mean 'there's nothing to do'
and that's what I've been trying to point out since the start of this topic:
the people who are bored have every right to, but the claim there is nothing to do is simply wrong, and I think that's important to point out, because people WILL get discouraged if all they read is 'wahwahwah I'm so bored I have to do the same 2 runs 50 times'
no you don't HAVE to. you CHOSE to.

[Sayura_]

the people who are bored have every right to, but the claim there is nothing to do is simply wrong, and I think that's important to point out, because people WILL get discouraged if all they read is 'wahwahwah I'm so bored I have to do the same 2 runs 50 times'
no you don't HAVE to. you CHOSE to.

Mmm...no, actually you DO have to run the same 2 dungeons to get your myth. You DON'T have a choice.

[Starlord]

Mmm...no, actually you DO have to run the same 2 dungeons to get your myth. You DON'T have a choice.

Same 2 dungeons.. at least you have a choice between the 2 :P. ( Although it seems that people will do the dungeon most optimal to get their tomes). In 2.1, You will have more variety to get your tomes I am sure.

[amnie]

Mmm...no, actually you DO have to run the same 2 dungeons to get your myth. You DON'T have a choice.

eh. I didn't say you have more choices to get myth. I said it's your choice to only do these two runs to get myth. aka, it's your choice to do nothing but farming myth. that more clear now? stop acting like I'm attacking you. I never said you HAVE to do other things. YOU were the one implying the way I play the game is 'wrong' because I can't possibly find 'use' in collecting minions. I didn't say you were wrong in only enjoying a part of it (though it sounds like you aren't even enjoying the part you do, so no idea why we're even arguing. or why you're still playing, for that matter)

[Teirafon]

eh. I didn't say you have more choices to get myth. I said it's your choice to only do these two runs to get myth. aka, it's your choice to do nothing but farming myth. that more clear now? stop acting like I'm attacking you. I never said you HAVE to do other things. YOU were the one implying the way I play the game is 'wrong' because I can't possibly find 'use' in collecting minions. I didn't say you were wrong in only enjoying a part of it (though it sounds like you aren't even enjoying the part you do, so no idea why we're even arguing. or why you're still playing, for that matter)

lol I love your posts.

[Doo]

YOU were the one implying the way I play the game is 'wrong' because I can't possibly find 'use' in collecting minions.

Can't you just buy the minions for dirt cheap on the market board?

[amnie]

Can't you just buy the minions for dirt cheap on the market board?

a) of course, but that's hardly fun (for ME!)
b) it's called 'example'

[Fyce]

no. just no. you picked out the two extremes. nothing else.

I can assure you I very much so enjoy BOTH.

Congratulations, you are different.
Since you expected me to list every kind of player in the world, I'll include you to the mix.

I'll call you, "the middle ground".
You should be happy now.

In fact, most people are like you. Myself included.
We start slowly, having fun in solo-queue, collecting cute pets or whatever, and then we find a nice guild (or Free Company, if you want) and start doing the end game content, trying to reach some kind of nice blend of fun and efficiency.

I expected people to be smart enough to realise that my post wasn't meant to be interpreted like "there is white, and there is black". Sorry, my bad for that.

There is white
There is black
There is grey.

Black and White are the most "vocal" people and the love to troll each other.
Grey think both White and Black are stupid for not being also grey, and so they will troll both. "Oh mah gad. Why U so both so stoopid. Just do wat u want like we doo. Stop being elitist or so casual". Something like that.

You were right. This is a better explanation.


W... What? I made everyone look terrible? Oh. Well. Aren't we in a human based community? Yes? So, I don't really see the problem and that don't change my conclusion: satisfying everyone is impossible, and they will keep battling each other to prove them right/wrong.

[Altena]

the people who are bored have every right to, but the claim there is nothing to do is simply wrong, and I think that's important to point out, because people WILL get discouraged if all they read is 'wahwahwah I'm so bored I have to do the same 2 runs 50 times'
no you don't HAVE to. you CHOSE to.

No one is really implying that they have completed absolutely everything there is to do in this game.
They are simply saying that there is currently not enough end game content.


There is a BIG difference there.
I can go play with my pet chocobo and level it up, get a bunch of achievements, level classes, whatever it may be.. sure.. I "can" do that stuff. No one is disputing that.
The issue people are bringing up time and time again is that there is currently a lack of progressive end game content...
Basically the "hard" stuff in the game.. The challenging stuff that offers notable rewards.
Anyone can go dance around in meadows and pick flowers, but what people are asking for is more end game, and this is a fairly legit request, especially considering we are already 1 full raid/dungeon (Crystal Tower) behind what we should of had at release..

You keep getting "your point" wrong. No one is disputing that there is absolutely nothing to do.
A good portion want the hard stuff to make the game challenging.

You know what's fun for me? CHALLENGE!!! The reason I play MMO's is to band together with 7 or so friends and take on bosses that are difficult, mechanics that are challenging or interesting to learn.
My whole week of playing this game is honestly only about looking forward to clearing 1-4 coil, and dirtnapping to Twintania. The current issue is that once we beat Twintania and get it on farm, we will have another whole 3-4 months before there is more challenging stuff for us to try and defeat.

THAT is the complaint.
Nothing more, nothing less... I will quite happily grind my face against a wall and do dungeons, help my friends craft/meld stuff, work on my alt character for the rest of the week but the reason myself, and many others play this game is for the hard stuff - and currently once you've nearly cleared coil - that's pretty much the extent of it.