Problem with summoner DPS pet issue.

[Kevee]

However it won't take much for ifrit to be competitive, just needs to actually get his bugs fixed.

I really, really, disagree.

There is no way Ifrit can match the power of Bio/Bio II/Miasma + Garuda. Not unless it's so strong that it invalidates Garuda/Contagion completely.

On a pure ST basis? Yeah, but how many fights are like that unless you ignore mechanics? Not to mention you only ignore mechanics(such as Garuda feathers) when you vastly overgear the content, and at that point it wouldn't matter if you used Garuda or Ifrit.

If you're on-item-level for 50 content, Ifrit can do nothing to match Bane+Contagion against: Ifrit, all bosses of AK, 2nd/3rd boss of WP, Garuda, Titan, Turn 4, Twintania. All bosses of CM/Prae(Minus 1st UW fight).

Ifrit would only see use, as a ST damage dealer, for Caduceus(if no target switching), ADS(If you kill off the fire lasers, the DoT murders pets), and first boss of WP. All other fights, Contagion+Bane simply can't be matched unless Ifrit is so strong that it would invalidate using that combination.

I stand by my statement that we will never have a choice as long as Contagion exists, or Ifrit can't overcome 3 DoTs+Garuda(at which point we still won't have a choice, Garuda won't be used). There's really no way to equalize it, without a complete re-working of how pets function/what they do. I mean, sure, situationally we could use one pet or the other, such as a pure ST fight. This would be fine, but based on the encounters we've seen, I doubt we'll have a boss where it's just a strict ST DPS check.

Not to mention pet-switching is not a valid tactic due to MP concerns.

I assumed you meant bane, in which case, yea ifrit is going to lose unless he gets an aoe that is much better than garuda's.

One way to do this would perhaps just make his shield be an aoe pulsing tick instead of an on hit shield.

Let me preface this by saying I'm not attacking you, Panda. You're probably my most respected poster on this forum.

I want to use other pets.

If Garuda/Ifrit were equal, Ifrit would still not be used. Melee vs. Ranged, and FR vs. DK. There is no reason to use melee, DPS being equal, unless a mechanic requires it. It's detrimental to be melee.

If Ifrit was greater, there would be no reason to use Garuda besides on very niche fights with target switching/different spawn locations, like Turn 4, or Ifrit. Other that that? I couldn't really see a use if Ifrit did more AoE and ST. That still has a great disparity of pet usage, although less than what is present now.

Pets need to have a defined role, and then the MP cost needs to be lowered, along with cast time. We should use an AE pet when we need AE, and ST when we need ST. As it is now, we have to find the "best overall" for the entire encounter, and use that. With fight mechanics, and fight design(if it continues), this will always be Garuda.

[pandabearcat]

I assumed you meant bane, in which case, yea ifrit is going to lose unless he gets an aoe that is much better than garuda's.

One way to do this would perhaps just make his shield be an aoe pulsing tick instead of an on hit shield.

[Squa]

yeah, there is a lot of discussion about Contagion, having contagion + ranged attack of Garuda makes her really nice and likely the strongest pet for single target. However, the main issue seems, that even without final skill considered, the Wind Blade seems to do 190 damage, and Ifrit nuke attack does 130 (despite Wind Blade having 20 lower potency).

[pandabearcat]

You don't have to worry about offending me Kevee, heh, and I think we agree on the fact that since garuda is "best overall" this is kinda boring and hopefully will be amended.

Anyway I get what you're saying, what I'm trying to envision is that on fights where you don't need to swap targets much, they should fix ifrit damage to be higher than garuda's.

On fights where contagion bane is a thing (AoE), or target swapping is major, then garuda should be superior.

I can't actually remember Ifrit's attacks atm, does he even have an AoE?

If not then we should totally make Garuda the AoE pet and give ifrit something to make it better singletarget.

[Alberel]

What if Ifrit's basic 3s skill had a stacking potency buff based on SMN debuffs on target, akin to Fester (though not as powerful as Fester)? It would make him ideal for situations where both SMN and pet are focused on the same target.

Or let him proc a debuff that boosts the damage of the next Ruin/RuinII by a certain percentage.

It's really not hard to think of ways to make him viable.

[Pumra]

Ifrit is not bugged. He doesn't spam his main ability like Garuda because of auto attack. If you combine his auto attack with his main attack its the same damage as Garuda's attack. What needs to happen is his auto attack speed increased so he will then use his ability every time its up. Even still his damage/usefulness would not be on par with Garuda.

[Kevee]

Ifrit is not bugged. He doesn't spam his main ability like Garuda because of auto attack. If you combine his auto attack with his main attack its the same damage as Garuda's attack. What needs to happen is his auto attack speed increased so he will then use his ability every time its up. Even still his damage/usefulness would not be on par with Garuda.

No, his auto attack does not delay his ability. He is not bugged in that aspect. He acts the same as any physical DPS class/job.

He is bugged in that he doesn't use the skill on CD like Garuda.

[Squa]

No, his auto attack does not delay his ability. He is not bugged in that aspect. He acts the same as any physical DPS class/job.

He is bugged in that he doesn't use the skill on CD like Garuda.

you do not need a parser to test this out.

Goto any training dummy, or mob. Set your pet to 'Obey' (this will mean it only casts its primary 3s cd nuke, and nothing else unless it has a autoattack like Ifrit/Titan appears to).
Click over to your 'Battle' log, and you can see each hit damage
Garuda 100 potency hits for me for 190 each attack
Ifrit 120 potency hits for me for 130 attack
the numbers may differ for you, but this is my results at lvl 50 with relic and some mixed gear.

higher potency skill, less damage. Is there some sort of inner scaling that we do not know about?

[Kevee]

you do not need a parser to test this out.

Goto any training dummy, or mob. Set your pet to 'Obey' (this will mean it only casts its primary 3s cd nuke, and nothing else unless it has a autoattack like Ifrit/Titan appears to).
Click over to your 'Battle' log, and you can see each hit damage
Garuda 100 potency hits for me for 190 each attack
Ifrit 120 potency hits for me for 130 attack
the numbers may differ for you, but this is my results at lvl 50 with relic and some mixed gear.

higher potency skill, less damage. Is there some sort of inner scaling that we do not know about?

No one knows if it's a bug or not, but I'm guessing it isn't because Ifrit would do more raw DPS than Garuda if his attack was used on CD properly.

My idea is that it may be Ifrit scaling off the physical damage of books, whereas Garuda scales off the magical damage. It would make sense, since Ifrit needs DK for more damage, while Garuda needs FR. The numbers are similar enough that this is my best guess. Garuda does roughly the same damage as ifrit when switching to a book of electrum, which has 46 magic damage(relic+1 has 46 physical damage).

[Kasandaro]

My idea is that it may be Ifrit scaling off the physical damage of books, whereas Garuda scales off the magical damage.

Thought it also had been tested/proved that Ifrit damage used the SMN's STR-at-casting in the equation, while Garuda used INT? And/or that Ifrit tests against PDef, while Garuda tests against MDef? Anyone got enough STR gear to test?