Rdps and Mdps- balance idea

[Onyxys]

Greetings (yes, I decided to create a new thread, because I have some days of playing time)
I have an idea how to balance melee-DPS classes and range-DPS classes.
Mdps can attack only if close and Rdps can attack if close and if far away. Is it fair? The distance itself is already a great advantage. We know, that now Coil is a rather hard dungeon for Mdps classes. For example developers will design (already) new turns in other way with many boss's ranged-aoe attack. So what? Rdps classes can stay very close to bosses and continue to attack. When aoe passed- return to range position. It is not a solution, because Mdps classes can not continue to attack while avoiding close-ranged boss's aoe attacks. There is another way to balance- different skills of Rdps-classes must get DISTANCE restrictions for using. For example, if you stay 10-yalms or closer- you cant use skill. You like it? So, by designing different mobs and bosses with close-range AOE attacks and with far-range AOE attack we will get very good balance (great example is Chimera):
-if close-range AOE attack, Mdps run away, they cant attack, but Rdps can
-if far-range AOE attack, Mdps continue to attack, Rdps cant attack, because they need to stay close to boss to avoid attack
Im not talking about all range skills, but many of them must get such DISTANCE restriction and this will make Mdps classes much more popular in different raids to Coil or anywhere alse

Or another solution- the efficiency of range-skills will reduce greatly and get a great damage loss, if target 10yalms or closer

Thank you

[RyuujinZERO]

This doesn't work in practice due to the nessecity to also play in solo play.

Longbow rangers in GW2 were widely considered inferior if not useless in serious and solo play for this reason, as their damage fell off with range; the closer the enemy the lower the DPS they dealt. However in solo play, once you attack a mob it's going to close to reasonably short range no matter how you kite and in boss fights it wasn't always possible to maintain a very large amount of clearance. Melee can ALWAYS close to an enemy, they may have to back off due to PBAoE but they can always reach a boss. Your proposition however can set up a scenario where ranged DPS has nowhere from which they can hit the enemy, rendering them useless.

Really the only problem child in the equation is bard.

Black mages and Summoner still have to kite AoE's, during which time they cannot attack - only bards can shoot-and-scoot. And there's a number of other solutions (A damage penalty while moving, or possibly increase bard's focus on support, so they proxy a larger portion of their DPS through songs rather than doing large dps themselves)

[Ri_ri]

Just make mechanics that will only concern ranged classes.

I'm still amazed that Titan can put a Weight of the Land under melee's feet. Should've been a ranged-only mechanic.

[Onyxys]

Yes, solo-playing... But developers can add some skill to make a distance, if mob came too close. Or another solution- the efficiency of range-skills will reduce greatly and get a great damage loss, if target 10yalms or closer

[Mcshiggs]

Just make mechanics that will only concern ranged classes.

I'm still amazed that Titan can put a Weight of the Land under melee's feet. Should've been a ranged-only mechanic.

So groups would stack melee, and ranged wouldn't be able to get groups, that's how the community works.

[ChaozK]

So groups would stack melee, and ranged wouldn't be able to get groups, that's how the community works.

You would need to make a mix of mechanics that only affect melees and some that only affect ranged, rather than some affecting all and some only melees. Thats how other games handle it as well.

The funny thing is most people thought weight of the land would only affect ranged dps until they realized it only seemed that way because most groups stacked ranged dps like crazy.

[Mcshiggs]

Part of the idea behind this game was that every encounter could be beat regardless of party setup, as long as you have the standard tank, dps, heals thing going on, if they were going to have to make a mechanic for ranged, and a mechanic for melee, then why not just do what they did, and have the same mechanic affect both, it's just as easy to dodge weight as melee as it is ranged, the only time it can get troublesome is if everyone is loosely spread out so everyone runs into other people's plumes, and that is just poor playing, not poor mechanics. The fights are group fights, you need to be able to do your individual thing well, while working in a group, if someone messes up, and you get killed, then that is fine, teach them, or replace them. As for some mechanics affecting melee and not ranged, the only one I can think of right of is Ifrit, and Sear or Vulcan blast isn't going to get you killed, its more of a healer mechanic, to keep them busy, and vulcan blast is sort of bothersome for ranged, you have to stay back or you get interrupted, making you have to move more during plumes than melee.

[Onyxys]

Lets see, for example, Coil 1-2.
-----On snake Rdps need to worry only about poison shooting of the snake, but Mdps + this need to worry about tail hit and it is very dangerous because ping+server latency
------Coil 2 Rdps need to worry only about laser and other range attacks, but Mdps +this need to worry about round AOE. Many players know, that it is VERY hard to run out from this round AOE because ping+server latency. So, why not to make some boss balance and skill balance as I suggested to make Mdps classes more attractive?

[ChaozK]

then why not just do what they did, and have the same mechanic affect both

Because its not possible. How would you make ranged dps be affected by close ranged AOEs and cleaves?

[Mcshiggs]

Because its not possible. How would you make ranged dps be affected by close ranged AOEs and cleaves?

Slipstream, it's a cleave, and it's ranged, if you are a melee dumb enough to be in front of Ifrit for his cleaves, that's about the same as a ranged being in front of Garuda when she slipstreams, the close range aoe's Ifrit they don't hit hard, that's more for healers, since melee can't avoid sear/vulcan burst, in coil repelling cannons on ADS is the only mandatory one, if your melee can't avoid the water aoe thing kill that node that uses it, and it takes it away from ADS. Caduceus, the tail attack is very avoidable, don't go behind the freaking snake, if you have to for combo, hit it and move, if you aren't paying attention, and the monk triggered it a second before you moved, that's you not paying attention, actually ranged have to worry more about the tail than melee because they are feeding the slimes, they should come in from the side, but positioning can make it tricky.