Issues with Coil: Statics v. The Rest of Us

[Seig345]

[...]

Much of what you described as differences fall under the differences I pointed out. As far as not having as much control over who's in your party, that isn't going to affect anyone who doesn't want to use it anymore than it does now on the dungeons people are running that ARE in the DF.

I'm not sure how making it easier to get -into- a dungeon is going to allow people to abuse it for speed running and getting loot faster... In the end, the random assortment of players is only going to hinder attempts at speed runs, and I'm not sure why putting BC in the DF would also mean no lock-outs... As for being able to run the dungeon as many times as you want to practice, you could trade out the weekly lockout for just loot lockouts, so that repeat attempts yield no additional loot.

It's the same argument I've seen with people trying to speedrun AK with DF pugs... The DF was designed to get INTO dungeons faster, it has no bearing on how easy or quickly that dungeon is completed. Difficulty in finding a group for a dungeon doesn't equate to part of that dungeon's difficulty...

[Molly_Millions]

It feels like it is effectively unattainable for anyone not willing to grind out for hours a day to obtain DL gear, and once established groups form statics, it becomes even harder to break into end-game play. Some of the things said sound like elitism about gear and some sound like people saying they don't want noobs on the team. What it amounts to is feeling like there's no room for you in the end-game, and as those cliques proceed through other content and obtain even better gear, the disparity between them and the others only increases making the separation between the statics and everyone else even harder to bridge.

I've essentially given up on even obtaining my relic anytime soon, and that's despite having 20+ people in the FC who have already completed their relic quests (some more than once).

DL gear is pretty much a requirement to getting a relic and moving forward in the game. It's actually not hard to do, but you need to be willing to put in the time. As long you do that, the rest is not too hard. If you only have one 50, then there is really no excuse. You can run 3 to 4 times in WP in 2 hours, do that a few times a week and you'll have full DL and maybe even some AF2 before you know it.

[firepixiedarien]

I'm sorry but quit crying and recruit. It's that simple. Find the people to form a static Coil group or pug those are your options. It's the way MMOs have been forever.

lol yea, recruit a PUG.

No.

There's a difference between:

A. Inviting/befriending someone you randomly met who is cool to hang around wit

and

B. Actively looking for someone who is cool to hang around wit

There was no comparing being done on my side to the less skilled. What YOU should clue in on is the fact that the sense of entitlement that the less fortunate give off and people like you who think we have an OBLIGATION to do charity work. If people want to help then power to them but if not then mind your business and don't hound them. This is not elitism, this is a simple concept that has been present for a thousand years.

The simple concept is you not wanting others to tell you what to do, but then turning around and telling someone to mind their own business (you're telling them what to do).

Ignored. You're full of such negativity.

[Kosmos992k]

DL gear is pretty much a requirement to getting a relic and moving forward in the game. It's actually not hard to do, but you need to be willing to put in the time. As long you do that, the rest is not too hard. If you only have one 50, then there is really no excuse. You can run 3 to 4 times in WP in 2 hours, do that a few times a week and you'll have full DL and maybe even some AF2 before you know it.

Yes, I know that. But the practical aspect of this is not the issue, it's the social dynamic. Put the way you just put it, that sounds eminently reasonable, but put the way that others have put similar information it sounds elitist and exclusionary, and sets up walls that need not be there. The requirement for static teams for the Coil make this even worse as those teams will always be several steps ahead of everyone else, and as they spend more time running the Coil and other content as a team, the are less available to run other things with other people. The end-game in FFXIV is just plain anti-social, it set's up too many real and imagined barriers to entry at each step.

[Sfarzoso]

I follow up Molly's idea. And to be honest there are various way to obtain gear, there is a bunch of great crafted gear you can obtain as well is Darklight is too long for you to obtain. But the idea of gearing up is same for everyone. I personally had ZERO luck with Coil drops, and I am on Turn 5 in a static as mentioned. It does make of me an asshole cause I do coil with a static, but I found a group and I value play with it. AF2 is the most safe choice if don't obtain Allagan gear. And I think it does look sexier anyways. But Relic is mandatory, even +1 If you want to do Turn 5 of Coil, the reason ? Damage and stats are a benefice you cannot skip on.

[Molly_Millions]

Yes, I know that. But the practical aspect of this is not the issue, it's the social dynamic. Put the way you just put it, that sounds eminently reasonable, but put the way that others have put similar information it sounds elitist and exclusionary, and sets up walls that need not be there. The requirement for static teams for the Coil make this even worse as those teams will always be several steps ahead of everyone else, and as they spend more time running the Coil and other content as a team, the are less available to run other things with other people. The end-game in FFXIV is just plain anti-social, it set's up too many real and imagined barriers to entry at each step.

You don't need a static group to get DL. As a matter of fact, as a tank (or even if you just use the df with a tank), it's faster if you use the duty finder. Getting DL gear should be looked at as leveling up. You'r not really done levling once you hit 50, you must grind to get DL gear. Once you have that, then your relic, finding a static group will not be hard, even if you have to look outside your FC/LS. TBH, getting a relic isn't that tough either. If the Titan fight is giving you issues, there are groups willing to carry people through it. Sometimes you can find groups that do just fine and just need an 8th person to enter the fight.

IMO, the only wall that should not exist that currently does, is the weekly lockout on Coil. If there are any other walls, they are self-imposed.

[Tenkei]

I had to split this up - anyhow...

Do note that I haven't read through all these pages.


With that said, what the OP is suggesting I believe is a great overall suggestion... Why?

Loot Lockout:
A loot lockout simply means once you defeat a boss the first time for the week you have access to the loot, but you will not be eligible for loot from that particular boss if you defeat it again during the lockout period.

So if you defeat turns 1, and 2 with some friends, and decide to rerun it with another group of friends new to Coil, you won't gain any access to loot for turns 1 and 2 - let's say they managed turn 3 - you would be eligible for that since you didn't already clear it this week yet.

Players may however prefer to clear content with their static group first to ensure optimal loot distribution if desired.

[Tenkei]

It fundamentally achieves the same thing as the current Boss Lockout model, with the exception that you can rerun the content (but get no access to loot for encounters already cleared prior). Though, that means people can sell runs now... Here are my thoughts on this.

If the content is easy enough to sell runs, then it's not as difficult as it was anymore. As information becomes generalized, and the average gear of players improve, the encounters gradually become easier as a result (mechanic fights more-so as information is generalized, which happens over time as well).

[Tenkei]

For example, early on Titan runs were a big thing. Nowadays, it's being sold regularly. Currently, I wouldn't imagine anyone selling Turn 5 BC runs at this time - with a loot lockout instead of boss lockout, eventually it will be sold - but not while it remains extremely difficult.

Difficult content won't be sold because it's too difficult to carry someone. If it's no longer difficult for whatever reason - then people may start selling it, and odds are that it can be pugged within reason or with some difficulty anyhow.


Adding BC to duty finder doesn't make static groups run duty finder! The same way there are alot of players who prefer to create premade groups for WP/AK within their FC, or on their server - duty finder is simply there as an additional option.

While the success rate and speed may not be as high as static groups or premade groups hand picking members - it's an option, and a place that newer players and players with erratic schedules can use to access the content.

[Kosmos992k]

You don't need a static group to get DL. As a matter of fact, as a tank (or even if you just use the df with a tank), it's faster if you use the duty finder. Getting DL gear should be looked at as leveling up.**snip** Sometimes you can find groups that do just fine and just need an 8th person to enter the fight.

I understand all of that, but I didnt pay my sub, form my FC and bring 50+ gamers from elsewhere to FFXIV just so i could enjoy playing with strangers.

Oh, and for reference, glass ceilings are NOT self imposed.