DRG is unbalanced and desperately needs a buff.

[Hanemakikaze]

rada rada

Pretty sure most if not everyone disagreeing with you are just people refuting your over exageration on how weak/strong drg is, which you are. Just because another class does what they do well doesn't make them unbalanced, like I said before with black mage their damage & utility has always been that way even since FFXI this is just what they are high damage glass cannons with plenty of utility to compensate being so fragile(which I might add dragoons are not), in fact they are far more balanced in 2.0 than any other version(XI, XIV 1.0) as you no longer see people just stacking blms for almost literally everything.

Dragoon needs tweaks sure, but no they aren't weak, when I see one at the bottom of the dps parse in any given fight then maybe, just maybe I'll believe that. But from where I see it, bard is usually the lowest out of any given geared party, but their mobility/songs make up for that. The only class that has an extreme balance skew is warrior at this moment, dragoon needs tweaks but it's not even close to the point where warrior currently is where you absolutely just can't take one in and end up struggling if you do when compared to paladin, in coil anyway.

[Altena]

Pretty sure most if not everyone disagreeing with you are just people refuting your over exageration on how weak/strong drg is, which you are.

This post is about the combined balance of DPS + Utility.
The gap between flat DPS may not be absolutely between a BRD and DRG, however the part that makes it unbalanced is BRD's large arsenal of utility. They are guarenteed a spot in any party simply because of their songs. They are also preferred DPS as they don't have to put themselves in high risk situations as often as a melee DPS.
The gap between DRG and MNK however is huge. This is not an exageration. The numbers in my previous post alone show this. If I were to do the true flank rotation (this isn't even optimal), my undergeared MNK would be parsing similar numbers to my near-full i90 DRG.

Just because another class does what they do well doesn't make them unbalanced,

Wait ... what?

Read that sentence again... Here let me re-word it for you to make it clearer to what this sounds like:
"Just because another DPS class is a better DPS then another, doesn't make them unbalanced."

Sorry but yes, it does. Why would anyone choose sub-optimal over optimal? Not only this, all current DPS offer more utility then DRG.

like I said before with black mage their damage & utility has always been that way even since FFXI this is just what they are high damage glass cannons with plenty of utility to compensate being so fragile(which I might add dragoons are not), in fact they are far more balanced in 2.0 than any other version(XI, XIV 1.0) as you no longer see people just stacking blms for almost literally everything.

To begin with, FFXIV isn't FFXI.
In addition to this, how does "BLM has always been strong, so it should stay strong." make any sense?
Their crowd control is absolutely superior to all other DPS classes. That alone is a reason to bring one along.
On top of this they have the highest AoE damage, the 2nd highest single target damage, and they do all of this out of harm's way - at range.

The balance between weaker physical defense, is quite simply that they don't have to be close to anything that hits them for physical damage.
If they do? Then they have Manawall (which is far superior to DRG's Keen Flurry equivalent), but Manawall isn't enough? Then BLM has Manaward which is effectively 30% HP boost when they are taking magic damage. The closest equivalent to that is Foresight - which on my PLD (which has much higher defense then DRG) equals to about a 7% damage taken reduction. On DRG? This equates to diddly squat.

Dragoon needs tweaks sure, but no they aren't weak, when I see one at the bottom of the dps parse in any given fight then maybe, just maybe I'll believe that.

You need to parse more, or play with DRG's that are actually equally geared and not overgeared in comparison.

But from where I see it, bard is usually the lowest out of any given geared party, but their mobility/songs make up for that. The only class that has an extreme balance skew is warrior at this moment, dragoon needs tweaks but it's not even close to the point where warrior currently is where you absolutely just can't take one in and end up struggling if you do when compared to paladin, in coil anyway.

Not sure where you got those numbers from but even facerolling trashy bosses in Praetorium - any scrub BRD that knows how to use their skills pushes higher then DRGs of equal gear.

As for Warrior, it works as an off-tank, while I agree doesn't really work as a MT most of the time. It is in a weird place at the moment - and is getting a buff to compensate for it. However DRG is in the same boat. It has lackluster DPS and next to no utility (aside from buffing BRD damage.. lol).

[ChaozK]

Pretty sure most if not everyone disagreeing with you are just people refuting your over exageration on how weak/strong drg is, which you are. Just because another class does what they do well doesn't make them unbalanced, like I said before with black mage their damage & utility has always been that way even since FFXI this is just what they are high damage glass cannons with plenty of utility to compensate being so fragile(which I might add dragoons are not), in fact they are far more balanced in 2.0 than any other version(XI, XIV 1.0) as you no longer see people just stacking blms for almost literally everything.

That glass cannon argument is not valid. BLMs have the highest magical defense of all dps while dragoons have the lowest. Now what happens more often, a dps tanking for physical damage or a dps eating an AOE for magical damage? Not even considering that BLMs aren't even in range to get hit by physical damage.

Not going into the argument wether dragoons are weak or not but just wanted to point that out, BLMs are not more of a glass cannon than any other dps. Its just trade offs:

BLM/SMN: high mag def / low phy def
MNK/BRD: med mag def / med phy def
DRG: low mag def / high phy def

[Hanemakikaze]

That glass cannon argument is not valid. BLMs have the highest magical defense of all dps while dragoons have the lowest. Now what happens more often, a dps tanking for physical damage or a dps eating an AOE for magical damage? Not even considering that BLMs aren't even in range to get hit by physical damage.

Not going into the argument wether dragoons are weak or not but just wanted to point that out, BLMs are not more of a glass cannon than any other dps. Its just trade offs:

BLM/SMN: high mag def / low phy def
MNK/BRD: med mag def / med phy def
DRG: low mag def / high phy def

You make a valid point, but Black Mage wear cloth armor and have a smaller health pool, not sure what the ADS beam is but I've seen the mages in my group get one shot by that where as me on monk or dragoon can at the very least survive it. To me, that is very glass cannon, whether they are able to avoid the damage or not doesn't change the fact that if they do get hit, they're dead.

rada rada rada

For starters, whether it's FFXI or FFXIV doesn't matter, SE has established the black mages role in parties and it's pretty much set in stone. Everything you just said about them is who they are and how it's always been, that's not going to change and I don't think it should. Sure, in a perfect world a mage doesn't get hit but that world doesn't exist. People screw up, if a black mage pulls agro, or gets agro from adds there's a 90% chance they are going to die in coil, hell, if they get hit by a stray beam from one of the ads bosses they are dead.

My point is though, a squishy will always be a squishy no self buffs are going to stop that. As for the whole class doing their role well doesn't make them unbalanced, what you think it sounds like I'm saying is completely off. When I see that the majority of the classes in this game do their role well, I think that's absolutely balanced. When a class can't perform above average no matter what the circomstances, be it player skill, gear, etc. THAT is what I consider unbalanced, and as I stated before only warrior fits the bill. Dragoon is weaker than Monk & Black Mage, but put is can indeed pull its weight in a party and perform above average. And like I said, it does need tweaks but I do not find them as weak and you're making them out to be.

[Altena]

You make a valid point, but Black Mage wear cloth armor and have a smaller health pool, not sure what the ADS beam is but I've seen the mages in my group get one shot by that where as me on monk or dragoon can at the very least survive it. To me, that is very glass cannon, whether they are able to avoid the damage or not doesn't change the fact that if they do get hit, they're dead.

A piercing laser will practically 1-shot anyone aside from a tank. On top of this, melee have to watch for conal swipes/auto attacks, repelling cannons, firestream is much harder to dodge when you are within melee range, pacman (water type move that fans out with a wedge out of it.. idk the name) has a max range, and ranged DPS should be beyond that max range to begin with. So yeah don't even get me started on the risks of playing as a melee in T2. It is far less risky to stand at a range and pew pew with a bow or fire.

For starters, whether it's FFXI or FFXIV doesn't matter, SE has established the black mages role in parties and it's pretty much set in stone.

Wait so, Warrior in FFXI was used primarily as a DD - so that means they are a DD in this game? On that logic, my previous statement would be true. However it is not.

Everything you just said about them is who they are and how it's always been, that's not going to change and I don't think it should.

What "should" change is the balance. Sure they can have burst or AoE damage, and offer superior utility/CC. However there needs to be a balance of this. They can maintain this bursty DPS / utility role, as long as DRG excels in something that BLM does not, and currently that is not the case. As a DPS class you have one major role - and that is to do DPS. Some are also required to offer utility. From your posts you basically just admitted that BLM is "overpowered" which really it isn't, but DRG is underpowered. Much like PLD vs WAR.. PLD isn't overpowered - but WAR is definitely underpowered.

Sure, in a perfect world a mage doesn't get hit but that world doesn't exist.

How is this an argument for or against a mage? The point is there are varying degrees of risk. There are a lot more mechanics that will kill a melee then there are those that will kill a BLM. Everything a BLM has to dodge - so does a melee. So I don't really see your argument there. The advantage of ranged class - is they don't have to dodge close proximity attacks from the main boss. The disadvantage comes in the form of less HP.

People screw up, if a black mage pulls agro, or gets agro from adds there's a 90% chance they are going to die in coil, hell, if they get hit by a stray beam from one of the ads bosses they are dead.

BLM pulls agro in this game? Wait, any class pulls agro? Unless you are talking about zerging AoE trash somewhere like Turn 4, it's highly unlikely they will be pulling hate on a single target. Even in Turn 4 - 1 or 2 adds won't kill you, if you have competent healers. I don't really get your point here... Everything a range class has to worry about - a melee has to as well, and more.

My point is though, a squishy will always be a squishy no self buffs are going to stop that.

Yes, and as stated multiple times - the squishy is weighed up against the fact that they are ranged.

As for the whole class doing their role well doesn't make them unbalanced, what you think it sounds like I'm saying is completely off. When I see that the majority of the classes in this game do their role well, I think that's absolutely balanced. When a class can't perform above average no matter what the circomstances, be it player skill, gear, etc. THAT is what I consider unbalanced, and as I stated before only warrior fits the bill. Dragoon is weaker than Monk & Black Mage, but put is can indeed pull its weight in a party and perform above average. And like I said, it does need tweaks but I do not find them as weak and you're making them out to be.

You obviously don't seem to understand.

A DRG has "low" DPS when compared to other classes, of equal gear, and equal skill.
It has the lowest form of utility for a DPS class.
It is melee.
These 3 things indicate that it "does not fill its role well".

Inferior DPS & little utility, at a high risk range..
Sounds like it is totally balanced... /facepalm.

What more needs to truly be said?