+1 relic weakest upgrade for tanks?

[Maelwys]

I have to disagree with your Post-Turn 5 set up, 15 crit rate (using valor gloves + feet instead of allagan) is more average through put than 11 DET.

If Crit = Det in terms of additional damage granted, I'd agree with you... however Det is worth considerably more per point for a Paladin since we're not stacking DPS stats.

Plugging the BIS values into http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=260 with an Allagan weapon gives:

VIT SETUP:
361 Str, 189 Dex, 518 Vit, 594 Parry, 475 Acc, 352 Crit, 230 Det, 352 SS
361 Str, 189 Dex, 518 Vit, 594 Parry, 475 Acc, 367 Crit, 219 Det, 352 SS
WS: -0.45% DPS
AA: -2.12% DPS

STR/DEX SETUP:
406 Str, 234 Dex, 493 Vit, 553 Parry, 475 Acc, 368 Crit, 292 Det, 359 SS
406 Str, 234 Dex, 493 Vit, 553 Parry, 475 Acc, 383 Crit, 281 Det, 359 SS
WS: -0.31% DPS
AA: -1.57% DPS

Bottom line: always going to be a decrease, sorry

[Zazakura]

I went for +1 first point as paladin . never looked back, never will look back, its superb upgrade and remember kids: faster dps can nuke, faster mobs die outta your arses, but for dps to nuke faster you need to be able to hold all the aggro

[Maelwys]

I went for +1 first point as paladin . never looked back, never will look back, its superb upgrade and remember kids: faster dps can nuke, faster mobs die outta your arses, but for dps to nuke faster you need to be able to hold all the aggro

It pretty much comes down to "Go for the +1 weapon whenever you are having trouble holding aggro with your DPS going flat out."
For most of us, it appears that this only really starts happening at Coil Turn 2s and 4.

It's a balancing act though. You can push the Threat output up much further if you're willing to start sacrificing a little Vit and Parry for it (and in extreme cases, respecing for +Str over +Vit)

The Gryphonskin setup I mentioned above is probably the best means I've found to boost a Paladin's threat output up as high as possible whilst sacrificing as little Vit and Parry as possible. There's actually another Gryphonskin setup which pushes up a Paladin's STR and DEX as high as possible (NOT threat output, just the raw STR and DEX values) whilst sacrificing as little Vit and Parry as possible and not burning a respec: this is the "Maximum Block/Parry" configuration... which is a rather odd build but can technically withstand a higher amount of incoming damage over time than a "Full Vit" setup. (Exactly how much extra mitigation over time it provides is up for debate - the affect of +Str on Block Strength is known, but there's a lot of ongoing theorycrafting about exactly how +Dex affects Block/Parry rate...)

Compared to the Post-T5 +Vit BIS build above, you'd basically use the Valor Hands and swap all the accessories out, sacrificing 9 Parry, 25 Vit and 2 Acc for 45 Dex, 45 Str, 31 Crit, 30 Det and 7 SS.

[Phreak]

Does crit have walls you have to meet before it scales to a level that it is desirable? That's my only guess as to why it isn't worth it for PLD but every DPS class seems they can't get enough of it and laugh at DET.

[Maelwys]

Does crit have walls you have to meet before it scales to a level that it is desirable? That's my only guess as to why it isn't worth it for PLD but every DPS class seems they can't get enough of it and laugh at DET.

The damage formula is quite complex:
AA = (WAA/WD) x [((0.0032 x STR + 0.4162) x WD) + (0.1 x STR – 0.3529) + ((DTR – 202) x 0.11))] x (1 + (0.5 x (0.0693 x CRT – 18.486)/100))
WS = (Potency/100) x [((0.0032 x STR + 0.4162) x WD) + (0.1 x STR – 0.3529) + ((DTR – 202) x 0.035))] x (1 + (0.5 x (0.0693 x CRT – 18.486)/100))

Basically, it'll depend on what buffs you can stack (e.g. Internal Release!) more than anything else.
Look at the nature of how PLDs build threat... there's a noticeable difference to the weightings of Det on AA damage compared to WS damage, and Tanks basically build threat by spamming WS combos for +Enmity.

Finally, some DDs are very silly and don't know how their own stats weightings work and just assume Crit is always better because of all the nice big red numbers.
(Check this thread and look for the "I think my jump is broken" heading: even for certain DD jobs like DRG, +Det is "better" than +Crit point-for-point!)

[CianaIezuborn]

Massive amount of calculations here

This is awesome, thank you for sharing this!

Seeing all the calculations here is definitely leading me to hold till next week to get the Valor helm next, was considering +1 Shield for the short term benefit in case the Allagan doesn't drop. Seeing the stat gains on each slot here has swayed me towards the helm instead (already have chest purchased).

I'd already figured out what I would work towards for BiS, but this helps me with my much larger problem and that's efficient use of Myth stones while working around Allagan drops.

[WowSuchName]

Hi, I am about to spend my 1st myth gear and I wonder,

In case of upgrade from HDL Armor (Body+Helm) to Myth Armor. What do we use for Helm ? // Hoplite Helm?

[JeTaisNoobie]

Hi, I am about to spend my 1st myth gear and I wonder,

In case of upgrade from HDL Armor (Body+Helm) to Myth Armor. What do we use for Helm ? // Hoplite Helm?

Yup hoplite is your best bet, considering the allagan helm drops only on turn 5, and it would take you another 2 weeks approx to save enough myth for helm.

[WowSuchName]

@JaTaisNoobie: Wow this is fast. Thx.

[JeTaisNoobie]

@JaTaisNoobie: Wow this is fast. Thx.

Spelt my name wrong but otherwise, no problem at all!