BLM Fire II incredibly lack luster

[Allyrion]

Snip.

Ah, I think your later posts lead to confusion.
Your numbers are off though. I mean, who even uses a Blizz II spam as a real rotation?
Even the OP only used it as an example to critique Fire II.
Even on that point everyone who tested it after has said that Fire II performs better.

As far as I know the Blizzard II --> Blizzard II --> Fire III --> Flare --> Transpose is the highest dps.
So I don't think you can compare the aoe threshold according to the worst rotation we've got.

[Kenji1134]

Ah, I think your later posts lead to confusion.
Your numbers are off though. I mean, who even uses a Blizz II spam as a real rotation?
Even the OP only used it as an example to critique Fire II.
Even on that point everyone who tested it after has said that Fire II performs better.

As far as I know the Blizzard II --> Blizzard II --> Fire III --> Flare --> Transpose is the highest dps.
So I don't think you can compare the aoe threshold according to the worst rotation we've got.

That rotation seems to be tied for highest dps.
B2 is 100, Flare is 468, so ignoring F3 for switching purposes we have:
B2 - B2 - F3 - Flare - Trans - *Tick* - repeat.
(100+100+260*1.8)/(1+1+1+1.6+1) = 668/5.6 = 119.3 pot/gcd.
Then we have the 3 F2 - Flare - Transpose - *Tick* - B3 - F3 rotation, at 1026/8.6 = 119.3 pot/gcd.

So the first rotation is "faster", and probably better for shorter fights. But the 2nd can be done entirely from range, hence safer.

[PessimiStick]

That rotation seems to be tied for highest dps.
B2 is 100, Flare is 468, so ignoring F3 for switching purposes we have:
B2 - B2 - F3 - Flare - Trans - *Tick* - repeat.
(100+100+260*1.8)/(1+1+1+1.6+1) = 668/5.6 = 119.3 pot/gcd.
Then we have the 3 F2 - Flare - Transpose - *Tick* - B3 - F3 rotation, at 1026/8.6 = 119.3 pot/gcd.

So the first rotation is "faster", and probably better for shorter fights. But the 2nd can be done entirely from range, hence safer.

Flare is 1 GCD in the flare rotation, not 1.6. Potency for your calcs should be 133.6 p/GCD for the Flare-only rotation. I did the math for this in another thread previously. It's the highest AE DPS rotation we have if you don't get the F3 cast time bug a lot (which I think is latency related), and you don't mash transpose.

[Shadowzanon]

snipp

Are you taking into play that the 1st and well proven highest dps rotation we go all spells are cast under the global cool down. ?
when i am doing the b2, b2, fire3, flare , transpose, repeat. b2 takes 1.90 sec to cast while my gcd is at 2.38, fire 3 is at just a bit over a second and flare ends up just under 2 seconds due to double dipping. this means my dps is at every gcd and i can pull it all off even while waiting for a tic of mana before i transpose again.
Fire 2 is at 2.86 to cast. thus over the gcd if you are not swift casting flare thats 3.81 sec which is over the gcd, hardcasting blizzard 3 is at 3.33 seconds again over the gcd. I may not be understanding how you are doing your math. can you atleast clarify me that you are not calulating the 2nd rotation you mention at the gcd but at the time it takes to cast each spell since they are over the gcd the first rotation has to be calculated at the gcd since it is always under.

To clarify it takes 10 seconds to pull off the b2, b2, f3, flare, transpose , repeat. even waiting for the mana tic it remains about 12 seconds to be able to continue so in ideal situations you repeat ever 12 seconds. (adding a 2 second wait for mana tic)

Doing the other, taking in the factor you are double dipping f2 at the start (just to be fair since the above is taking in you just flared and transposed before starting. that would be 1.50 seconds for the 1st fire 2, thus 2.5 gcd, 3.00 x2 for the next 2 fire 2s, then 4 seconds for flare, transpose, wait a tic, 3.50 seconds for b3 then 1.75 seconds for f3, thus 2.50 for gcd. Thats 18.50 rounded to 20.50 (2 second for mana tic )seconds due to waiting for the mana tic.

Doing the first rotation you can do it 3 times totaling 36 seconds vs doing 2 times the other rotation in 41 seconds.

This is what I am trying to understand, did you calculate taking into consideration the time the spells will take over the gcd if they are longer to cast than the gcd or are you assuming the 2nd rotation dps is based on the gcds excluding the extra time added by longer casting spells.?

[Kenji1134]

Hmm, touche. =)
I tried out the B2x2-F3-Flare(Transpose)-Tick rotation in WP today. And yes, I did not quite account for the cast time reduction on Flare if timed right.
More specifically, Ive found that if you cast F3 before you "fully" acquire the UI3 buff from your 2nd B2, then your F3 remains 1.4 gcd's, but you can always (barring server/connection lag) get Flare to go off with the halved cast time.

So same 668 pot. If we somehow get BOTH F3 and Flare to have the UI3 cast time reduction, which I found to be very rare, then our rotation takes (1+1+1+1+1), and pot/gcd = 133.6
If we get F3 to start casting before UI3 is up, then we can always get Flare to cast under the gcd, and we get (1+1+1.4+1+1) gcd's, and pot/gcd = 123.7
And with server lag, we fail miserably... F3 takes 1.4 gcd's, Flare takes 1.6, so we get (1+1+1.4+1.6+1), and pot/gcd = 111.3

And for reference, the F2x3-Flare(Transpose)-Tick-B3-F3 rotation is 1026/8.6 = 119.3 pot/gcd.

So best case scenario, the B2-F3-Flare rotation is 12% better than the fully ranged F2->Flare rotation, but only in the event that you get both F3 and Flare to cast at half speed.
More likely, only one of the 2 will cast at half speed, but that is still ~4% better than F2->Flare.
But if you are laggy, then F2->Flare is typically more reliable... and of course, if melee range isnt safe... you dont have much of a choice anyway. =)

[Shadowzanon]

You may not know this but even the fire 2 rotation suffers from the same thing the bliz 2 rotation, if i fire blizzard3 and quickly try to use fire 3 i have high chances on getting the normal casting delay. On both this can easly be taken care of by taking 1 or 2 steps foward after your char casts, then hit the fire 3, by then the values have changed to benifit from the speed n double dipping fire 3, fire 2 or in the other case fire 3, flare.

Now dont get me wrong, while the bliz 2 rotation is good, it requires a good tank as you will aggro the hell out of everything more so when you are geard. in case this occures the fire 2 rotation , while slower , atleast ensures you wont rob aggro quick giving more breathing space for aspiring tanks learning how to speed run. i also switch to fire 2 if by any chance i was seperated by a tomberry n is waiting for it to move out of the way XD.

as for coils, turn 4 the bliz 2 rotation is king and by now tanks know how to hold aggro perfectly well thus allowng you to take advantage of the insane burst you get.

[xyaie]

edit: not sure why it double posted

[xyaie]

Hmm, touche. =)
I tried out the B2x2-F3-Flare(Transpose)-Tick rotation in WP today. And yes, I did not quite account for the cast time reduction on Flare if timed right. -snip-

timing -does- come into play, but it isnt "rare". once you get it down its basically muscle memory. Basically what is important is get UI3. Dont cast Fire 3 until you have UI3. Cast flare right after fire 3. Technically there is another .1 second between the 2nd bliz 2 and the fire 3, but it still ended up higher dps every time for me than any of the other rotations ive tried.

I just use Fira rotation with my other BLM and we do fine.

"fine" is relative