Is Twintania really a two tank fight?

[Zdenka]

Every video shows two tanks.

There is one video where someone has used 1 tank and 5 DPS.

There's several reasons to use 2 tanks:

1. PLD is actually really awesome at bursting Conflag's.
2. PLD has the best stun set for DKs.
3. Steadier add's.
4. Mediocre DPS allows you to have a buffer to fail somewhat and still win... with 3 healer DPS can't fail at all, with the 13m enrage.

Basically it makes the fight more consistent to use a 2nd tank. Its not really that much more safe than having a DRG or MNK tank adds, but you'll be able to kill them more reliably and its a lot more survivable so that you won't see any DPS "tanks" getting auto-gibbed which effectively could waste 10 minutes in your DPS tank drops during Snakes.


I will disagree with you however, swapping the OT for another healer is even more useless than having the OT. The only reason you even need 2 healers in the fight is due to Conflag and DK mechanics otherwise this fight would be potentially able to complete with a single healer. It still might be anyways but would require just a tad of luck to never have the healer inside either of those mechanics ^^;

[CalvatE]

1. PLD is actually really awesome at bursting Conflag's.

Everytime we've had a Warrior in DPS stance they've pulled out a good 50%+ more than a PLD does. And since when did it become about PLD vs WAR anyway?

I don't think Twintania requires two tanks, but it's most definitely the safer route due to adds existing.

[Zdenka]

Everytime we've had a Warrior in DPS stance they've pulled out a good 50%+ more than a PLD does. And since when did it become about PLD vs WAR anyway?

I don't think Twintania requires two tanks, but it's most definitely the safer route due to adds existing.

We've never used a WAR off tank for the fight so I didn't want to presume to know what a WAR can do, the same why I specifically mention PLD for the stun. If that's true that its +50% that would mean WAR does the most damage to Conflagration out of all classes which is actually impressive.

[CalvatE]

We've never used a WAR off tank for the fight so I didn't want to presume to know what a WAR can do, the same why I specifically mention PLD for the stun. If that's true that its +50% that would mean WAR does the most damage to Conflagration out of all classes which is actually impressive.

We did a run with PLD and WAR in the same party for WP once. Our WAR and BRD raced for DPS on the Tonberry King and other bosses and the BRD got 215 and the WAR 185, Warriors can dish out some pretty great DPS (Although they'll always be behind DPS by a little), but only if you let them DPS :P

We have our Warrior DPS'ing like everyone else and if the PLD goes down, he rushes in to buy us time to get the PLD back up and it works. It's kind of like having a DPS Tank Hybrid which is handy.

[Cryvil]

The only reason you even need 2 healers in the fight is due to Conflag and DK mechanics otherwise this fight would be potentially able to complete with a single healer. It still might be anyways but would require just a tad of luck to never have the healer inside either of those mechanics ^^;

That sounds like so much fun...I'm putting the 1-1-6 Twintania run on my FF14 bucket list. If targetted by Conflag, couldn't the tank just hop on in? And if targetted by the DK stun, I would think the 6 DPS would have DK dead before Hallowed Ground wears off.

Phase 5 sounds like a solo-healing nightmare though, with people eating eggs and liquid hell shots while the tank is playing punching bag for the boss.

[Zdenka]

That sounds like so much fun...I'm putting the 1-1-6 Twintania run on my FF14 bucket list. If targetted by Conflag, couldn't the tank just hop on in? And if targetted by the DK stun, I would think the 6 DPS would have DK dead before Hallowed Ground wears off.

Phase 5 sounds like a solo-healing nightmare though, with people eating eggs and liquid hell shots while the tank is playing punching bag for the boss.

Its basically involves some form of luck to actually do it, if its even really possible. (If I suggested we even try I'd get yelled at so much). I am pretty confident if you manage to minimize damage inputs from the very start (Scourges) and the snakes phase you could 1 healer it down to at least the final phase and then get EXTREMELY lucky you might be able to pull it off. Its probably something to occupy some time when bored, at least to try ^^;

[MiaBella]

That sounds like so much fun...I'm putting the 1-1-6 Twintania run on my FF14 bucket list. If targetted by Conflag, couldn't the tank just hop on in? And if targetted by the DK stun, I would think the 6 DPS would have DK dead before Hallowed Ground wears off.

Phase 5 sounds like a solo-healing nightmare though, with people eating eggs and liquid hell shots while the tank is playing punching bag for the boss.

Death Sentence does too much damage, I don't think it would be possible with current gear. Even if a WHM could heal fast enough to get a tanks hp to full after every death sentence, I don't see how they would be able to sustain their MP for the duration of the fight especially past the conflag stage where there is no way to dodge death sentences. Ive honestly always thought that you could do this fight with 1 tank since the first time I went into the instance, but I don't see how you could do it with one healer.

I personally still don't feel that it is ideal to only use one tank over using two however, as the second tank, especially a paladin brings in a lot of utility to the fight. They may not be doing as much DPS, but the fact that they can stun dread knights repeatedly on a GCD, cast stone skin, and offtank adds, and easily eat hatch even while standing in fire makes the fight go so much smoother. I don't personally see any reason for people to pass any of those things up unless they are just bored with the fight and want to see how far they can push it, or their DPS is too low to do the damage they need with only 4 fullblown DPS.

[Kellanved]

The videos I've seen of one tank looked overly complicated and were slower than 2 tank kills.

I've only been able to find Insurrection's 1-tank video and it didn't seem any different than how 2-tank groups do it.

My FC's current comp is PLD PLD BRD BRD BLM DRG SCH WHM and we're having trouble consistently getting the quick conflags (4 stack) down. Our healers and tanks are really well geared, but our DPS hasn't been lucky with coils drops. In addition, our DRG only started coils this week.

I'm entertaining the thought of one of our PLDs going MNK instead since he's been hoarding all the useless MNK drops we've had (5) and he already has his +1. I think our other tank is more than capable and our heals are the best geared in the group so I don't think we would have any issues keeping DPS us if they happen to tank an add for a bit.

Regarding the reasons for 2 PLDs on the first page:

There's several reasons to use 2 tanks:

1. PLD is actually really awesome at bursting Conflag's.
2. PLD has the best stun set for DKs.
3. Steadier add's.
4. Mediocre DPS allows you to have a buffer to fail somewhat and still win... with 3 healer DPS can't fail at all, with the 13m enrage.

I think most of these were not directed at dropping a tank so much as they were at adding a healer. Are PLDs much better stunners than MNK? With 5 DPS, adds should die a bit faster. Popping CDs on the first Scourge would hopefully kill it fast enough that it only has time to do one Liquid Hell. Those are the only real issues for healers in my opinion.

Also, there was mention of 1-1-6 and the risk of the healer getting conflag but I was under the impression that the top 2 on threat would never get conflag. As WHM, I'm usually just ahead or just behind the off-tank on threat.

[Zdenka]

I think most of these were not directed at dropping a tank so much as they were at adding a healer. Are PLDs much better stunners than MNK? With 5 DPS, adds should die a bit faster. Popping CDs on the first Scourge would hopefully kill it fast enough that it only has time to do one Liquid Hell. Those are the only real issues for healers in my opinion.

PLD can stun the DK 3 times, 6s -> 3s -> 1s for a total of 10s. MNK can only stun it once, for 4 seconds.

Its possible to have your MT stun the DK, but it causes a huge issue if you have any melee.


I know I am disregarding burn efficiencies etc, but PLD is the 2nd or 3rd best class at doing damage to conflags, a typical win will have conflag damage arranged at about this:

MNK: 23.5k
PLD: 20.5k
BLM: 16k
BRD1: 15.5k
BRD2: 15k
MT PLD: 3k (jump in strategy)

You might need to consider whom is actually in the conflag, but we have parsed burn conflags only and come with the same results with the OT PLD as the 2nd highest as well. The other class that should do awesome conflag damage is DRG, but it should still do less than MNK due to Greased Lightning. Again, we've never used WAR so I cannot comment on it, or SMN in this fight for that matter.


You maybe right about what those reasons are directed at but the basic truth of the matter is, if you use any set up other than 2tank/2healer/4dps you'll spend more time faceplanted on the ground than if you were using that configuration because it just is the best set up at eliminating some RNG that you'd have to deal with using a different set up. Consistency is the name of the game.