Yoshi P talks about Warriors- from Producer Letter Live @ TGS

[Judge_Xero]

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I was out at the bannock (I don't know if a level 50 dummy is different from a level 1 dummy... I just may be dumb) but here is my results:
http://imgur.com/WjfVCNZ

Ran out of TP in 200 seconds.

Interested in what your stats are. Not saying that PLD can't do damage, but judging by your numbers you would be around 360 STR and not in Shield Oath (Sword Oath?) My comparison was in equal Tank Stances. From your current gear on Lodestone it'd be around 120 DPS before you are TP starved and resort to Flash for Enmity. Warrior doesn't seem to have those issues.

[Phreak]

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Warrior doesn't seem to have those issues.

What on earth are you talking about? A WAR will always bottom out on TP before a PLD whether it's a DPS rotation or a threat rotation, it's basic math.

PLD:
70-60-60

WAR:
70-60-70, 70-60-60. 70-60-60 throw in fracture at any time and you'll run out even faster.

[Judge_Xero]

What on earth are you talking about? A WAR will always bottom out on TP before a PLD whether it's a DPS rotation or a threat rotation, it's basic math.

PLD:
70-60-60

WAR:
70-60-70, 70-60-60. 70-60-60 throw in fracture at any time and you'll run out even faster.

Here is a 10 minute parse on Warrior before I bottomed out on TP. Going all out on a training dummy, in Defiance only.
Relic + STR Gear - 5800 HP in Defiance 2.42 GCD



Here is a 3 minute parse of me going all out on an equally geared PLD Shield Oath (Relic/DL stats - VIT/Parry - 5400 HP 2.49 GCD)




Obviously it doesn't matter how much Damage a Warrior can do as a tank. But what I am looking at here is if it's enough to warrant two healers per 1 Warrior. Given that the healers will have more time to do damage as well and/or switch in and out of Cleric Stance it almost puts Warrior on equal footing as PLD given the right party composition.

Even given my own Character. If I was in a party as PLD with two DD's pulling 200 DPS with a solo healer, total party DPS would be ~510 DPS.
My Warrior with two healers and a 200 DPS DD, would require the healers to put out 70 DPS each. The unknown for me since I don't play healer classes is, what's a reasonable amount of Damage a healer could put out in a situation like that.

Edited: Going to have to go with it being very reasonable to do 70 DPS as a healer. With only 360 MND and the Chiran Staff I was pulling 60 DPS on top of healing with just Aero, Aero II and Thunder. I'm not even sure if that's the most effective way on WHM. That does include switching to Cleric Stance to apply the DOT's. So 430 MND + Tyrus, what would that bring it to, ~ 80+ DPS?

So 530 DPS War Party VS 510 DPS Pld party

[Phreak]

Parses

If you were going 'all out' you wouldn't be in defiance and you would be using fracture so no inner beast to delay your TP consumption. The only time it would be worth it to be in defiance is if you had unchained up which would only give you enough time for 1 Inner Beast every 3 mins.

If you were tanking you wouldn't be spamming inner beast, which would lead to you bottoming out much sooner.

Opening with unchained in defiance and getting 1 inner beast per unchained phase and applying fracture if it was not up after a full combo I had to start waiting for TP after 4 mins.

You're also assuming the healer + PLD group the healer wouldn't have opportunities to DPS and with the large CDs available to the PLD/Chain Stuns/Blind/Hollowed Ground that healer would also be contributing DPS.

Another thing you don't account for is the artificial TP extension by being pacified after every berserk use which is the same as if you had bottomed out on TP (you're just auto attacking)

[wlakiz]

If you were going 'all out' you wouldn't be in defiance and you would be using fracture so no inner beast to delay your TP consumption. The only time it would be worth it to be in defiance is if you had unchained up which would only give you enough time for 1 Inner Beast every 3 mins.

If you were tanking you wouldn't be spamming inner beast, which would lead to you bottoming out much sooner.

No if he's going all out he would be defiance switching with infuriate to ib every min and popping berserk which the pacification would prevent the tp from depleting

[Judge_Xero]

Response

Take from it what you want. Tank Stance VS Tank Stance with near equal HP the WAR did enough DPS over Paladin during a 10 minute span vs 200 Seconds on PLD that you could add two healers who DPS to make up for WAR's ability to survive over PLD. Take into consideration what that would mean if SE buffed WAR to the point that it could survive the same as Paladin.

WAR, Healer, 2 DD 570 DPS
PLD, Healer, 2 DD 510 DPS

At least with 2 Healers on WAR and given movement etc during fights, it's probably within 5 DPS as things are now.

Of course I could do another parse without Defiance up but it would only show an inflated DPS number VS normal usage. I did consider that the Pacification allowed War to rebuild TP and yet it still did much higher DPS. Would you rather I re-did my PLD Parse into a 10 minute span with allowing my TP to refill to show how quickly it would drop into the 80-90 DPS range, considering it only hit ~110 in a 3 minute span before bottoming out on TP. I could also do a 3 Minute Warrior parse, because it was still in the 190 DPS Range before it smoothed out over the next 7 minutes.

[Ruminate]

snip

Any idea why your PLD's auto-attack DPS is almost half as high as the WAR's auto-attack? If all equipment is equal, 10 more strength will not increase auto-attack DPS by +80%.

The auto-attack raw damage looks strange as well. The only way I was able to reproduce ~50 raw damage per auto-attack in Shield Oath was by using the grand company weapon.

Edit: n/m, i just noticed the reason. You said your WAR has 5800 HP in defiance. Your PLD has 5400 HP in Shield Oath. In other words, your WAR was decked out in DPS gear. I'm not sure what conclusion you can come up with, with that kind of testing.

[Judge_Xero]

I'm not sure what conclusion you can come up with, with that kind of testing.

the WAR did enough DPS over Paladin during a 10 minute span vs 200 Seconds on PLD that you could add two healers who DPS to make up for WAR's ability to survive over PLD

I will quote myself to show the relevance of my statement. By having two healers who DD on top of healing you will have more of what Warrior needs, heals. Because of the nature of their DOT style damage skills they can swap in and out of Cleric Stance while tossing up DOTs and Heals. You will also lessen the amount of MP a healer will use, as their DOT spells are less than the average Cure spell. So they are using less MP while DOTing and their cures are divided between the two of them. By increasing STR you will also increase War's self heals over a VIT build. With their 25% more HP in Defiance, even with a STR Build it still has a decent HP pool.

So STR War >= VIT PLD without any buffs - other than the whole X # of Buffs in Coil raising the damage above War's Max HP Value. But if your party has good DPS and finishes the fight on or before 5 stacks then it doesn't matter anyways.

Not to mention that 200 DPS for a similarly geared DD is pretty bad. I do way more than 200 DPS on my BLM with +1 and full DL.

Toss up a parse. I would like to see how far above 200 DPS you are for comparisons sake. I know it will be pretty high on a test dummy especially if any AOE's hit the other dummies. + not having to move out of danger etc. 200 Second Parse would be fine. Warriors DPS would be 210 ish with +1 and only 200 seconds.

[Leiron]

Your results are confounded because you are using an unequal gear set/ stat allocation.
There is absolutely NOTHING that can be said with these results.
You cannot compare the DPS of the two when they are of unequal gear.
Redo your test using equivalent gear.

[Judge_Xero]

Your results are confounded because you are using an unequal gear set/ stat allocation.
There is absolutely NOTHING that can be said with these results.
You cannot compare the DPS of the two when they are of unequal gear.
Redo your test using equivalent gear.

The reason I did the comparison that way is because the extra STR plays into WAR mitigation through HP absorb. Paladin just has it's cooldowns and STR would only increase enmity gain/damage at the cost of HP. War already gets 25% extra HP through Defiance.