XIV:ARR what SE could change to make the XI Playerbase more Happy

[silentwindfr]

the battlesystem of the V1 where you had to build you tp was boring as hell...
nothing to do until you did generate enough tp for do something... and after you did use all this marvelous tp you did spend ages at build... you wait another time...

but i'm not a jerk, judge by yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FUvQQ5__Nk

[KittenStomper]

the battlesystem of the V1 where you had to build you tp was boring as hell...
nothing to do until you did generate enough tp for do something... and after you did use all this marvelous tp you did spend ages at build... you wait another time...

but i'm not a jerk, judge by yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FUvQQ5__Nk

not sure how feverishly button mashing is really better.

[silentwindfr]

not sure how feverishly button mashing is really better.

we are far of some mmorpg with more fast paced fight. at best a monk in arr get around 2 sec of gcd (1.9sec with Selen buff) some game go below 1.5 sec (some even at 1 sec)
what you want is something that don't exist anymore, or on old game.

we had this talk while the beta, about the gcd, some was saying it was too short, but seriously, what the point to look your skill for more of 2.5-3 seconds. we are not playing chess, we are playing mmorpg. you need to know our class and the fight. all this time for decide which action you will do next is useless, it's something you normally have done far before the fight.

[KittenStomper]

we are far of some mmorpg with more fast paced fight. at best a monk in arr get around 2 sec of gcd (1.9sec with Selen buff) some game go below 1.5 sec (some even at 1 sec)
what you want is something that don't exist anymore, or on old game.

we had this talk while the beta, about the gcd, some was saying it was too short, but seriously, what the point to look your skill for more of 2.5-3 seconds. we are not playing chess, we are playing mmorpg. you need to know our class and the fight. all this time for decide which action you will do next is useless, it's something you normally have done far before the fight.

Thinking about what your gonna do next is not exactly the charm of such a battle system.

[Steeled]

Thinking about what your gonna do next is not exactly the charm of such a battle system.

I agree, but a gcd combat system where most abilties have no/super short cooldown completely makes it impossible.

I hate to bring up FFXI but it was the only mmo like it. Every action in that game had either a long cooldown a prohibitive cost, or the value of time used while doing it (T5 spells) and so you did the best in combat when you simultaneously had a plan for how you'd spend your remaining resources/cooldowns and were able to react to a wtf situation.

Just because most kids like pop music doesn't mean we needed another pop-star wannabe. XI would be the country music star in this analogy. Not as popular, not as flashy, but has loyal fans and stands out in a crowd.

[silentwindfr]

the actual system force people to know your skill, how you can get the best of it, in any situation. after you need to learn about the fight and the place where you go. what you can or can't do in this place. like this you have all the time to react to the AoE or other mechanic of fight.

with the old system you can't make any nervous fight, you will have a slow paced fight... you can't make interesting fight with something too slow. fight like titan HM, where people need to move or react fast to what happend, or know the rotation of the boss skill.

but we can talk of this all the day, but it was said countless time while the beta FF14 will never ever ever be FF11.

[Gilthas]

I agree, but a gcd combat system where most abilties have no/super short cooldown completely makes it impossible.

I hate to bring up FFXI but it was the only mmo like it. Every action in that game had either a long cooldown a prohibitive cost, or the value of time used while doing it (T5 spells) and so you did the best in combat when you simultaneously had a plan for how you'd spend your remaining resources/cooldowns and were able to react to a wtf situation.

Lol, I think you're really glorifying the "thought" behind which actions you used in FFXI.

For most melee jobs... you really didn't have to think much since you barely had any abilities to use. Even for mage jobs there was no planning... the truth is that you had a rotation to use (just like here) the big difference is that the rotation just took a lot longer to go through a cycle.

The only "saving abilities to use later" you had in the game was for stunning, and you get that here too.

[Eekiki]

XI would be the country music star in this analogy. Not as popular, not as flashy, but has loyal fans and stands out in a crowd.

And it gets a lot of attention even though most people are sick of it?

[Alhanelem]

FFXI is also an eleven old years game, to play it now would mean to adjust himself to a looot of missing content, even with Abyssea-easy mode. ARR just started, so it gives everyone a fresh start and the potential to reach the top.

So what you really want is just a reset button for FFXI to take it back to 6 or 7 years ago. That's fine, but that's not why ARR exists. ARR is a new game, it's not meant to be FFXI-2. They made it to draw a little bit from the entire franchise.

You're not going back to the FFXI of old without a time machine. Every MMO changes and evolves over time, and this one is no different.

What you have is a disease called nostalgia-fever. It can be cured with help though!

I don't expect ARR to be another FFXI. I don't want another FFXI to be honest. It would be nice to have the speed of battles slightly ratcheted back a small amount to account for players who have not be able to experience the fight and to be able to asses a situation without being negatively impacted.

I think latency-sensitive mechanics like titan and Twintania's aoes to be dodged are the main problem, not the pace of battle specifically. I like the speed where it is now. Some people think it's still too slow (and still others say not slow enough), so you'll never be able to please everyone.

[Marishi-Ten]

the actual system force people to know your skill, how you can get the best of it, in any situation. after you need to learn about the fight and the place where you go. what you can or can't do in this place. like this you have all the time to react to the AoE or other mechanic of fight.

with the old system you can't make any nervous fight, you will have a slow paced fight... you can't make interesting fight with something too slow. fight like titan HM, where people need to move or react fast to what happend, or know the rotation of the boss skill.

but we can talk of this all the day, but it was said countless time while the beta FF14 will never ever ever be FF11.

I don't normally post in the General Forums, but this comment I couldn't ignore.


There is a big double standard when it comes to this mindset:

"You need to know the fight back and forth to perform and we won't take you unless you have experience with the fight and can prove you can perform."

This, to me, is a problem. Fights are so hectic and chaotic that any little slip up causes entire wipes. How can players new to the fight ever hope to stand a chance? Part of the fun is challenging a monster that you know next to nothing about but players are humiliated and ridiculed if they mess up or don't know the script of the monster. How can you gain experience if you're never given the opportunity? What would be the incentive to join a party only to be berated by your perceived lack of skill or dedication?

The way the mechanics are currently, there is no time to step back even for a second and asses the situation. You have to constantly be running or dodging with little to no time to actually form any strategy or change the current one without a full blown wipe. One can't just watch to see how the mob behaves without having to focus on health bars, cast spells, dodge untold amounts AOE attacks, check positioning, watch cool downs, keep an eye on what ability the mob is getting ready to use, etc.

I'm not asking to have full ATB turn based combat, but allow a little bit of a buffer so players have the option to step back if needed, asses the situation, and react accordingly. Right now, it's almost as if we have no real control in battle. We can't ratchet back without catastrophic results. We are constantly playing catch up and having to dig out of the hole we are in only to jump back into another hole. Skill to me isn't the ability to memorize moves or run around it's the ability to look at a situation and adapt to changes based on large variables. Fights don't need to feel like a constant struggle just to stay alive.

As a WHM, I barely have time to keep up with how things are currently. I actually keep chat to an absolute minimum because things feel so fast paced and rushed that I don't have time to chat in party, my FC, or my LSes which in turn hurts the fundamental aspect of an MMO, which in turn hurts re playability, which damages revenue generation.

I don't expect ARR to be another FFXI. I don't want another FFXI to be honest. It would be nice to have the speed of battles slightly ratcheted back a small amount to account for players who have not be able to experience the fight and to be able to asses a situation without being negatively impacted.

Anyway, take it all with a grain of salt and know these are merely observations, not edicts from on high.