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  1. #141
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Doogsi View Post
    I'm sure we can all agree that you're the only one pissing here and making no points. Synovius introduced many of us to a new more powerful rotation. PessimiStick just backed his proposal with numbers. You come along and basically call them nubs and say your rotations are better even though we've already proved them inferior. Go back to your group and let them continue carrying you. We care not for your subjective advice. Have a nice day.
    ...And Mecan was never heard from again. Seriously, he never returned to the thread after PessimiStick repeatedly called him out on his fluff posts and you posted this.

    Well done *lights a cigar and kicks back in his chair*.
    (0)

  2. #142
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by thegodthatwas View Post
    Why wouldn't you use Firestarter and Thundercloud prods as soon as they show up?

    And why would you use Thunder II instead of III? When you open with B3 it's free...?
    Firestarter doesn't proc until your Fire I has finished traveling to the target meaning that, to use Firestarter as soon as it's up, you'd have to wait after casting Fire I to see if you're going to get a proc and then use it. This results in a very clunky rotation and also a net loss overall in DPS.

    As for Thundercloud procs, you are basically using them as soon as they come up. You're simply using them as soon as you are done with whatever cast you are in the middle of or immediately if you literally just finished a cast. The only caveat is that Firestarter procs take priority over Thundercloud procs if both happen to be up at the same time.

    Using Thunder II over Thunder III comes down to timing. Thunder II has a shorter duration that fits nicely with one loop through the rotation such that when you cast Blizzard III to start off a new loop through the rotation Thunder II should have just or will soon fall off of your target (this is obviously dependent on RNG with Firestarter procs throughout the rotation). More importantly, Thunder II's 0.5s less cast time over Thunder III allows you to follow your Blizzard III with Thunder II and have enough time to cast the subsequent Fire III for free as you'll get a tick of mana exactly at that moment from Umbral Ice III. In fact, I'd call this the primary reason to use Thunder II over III. Do note, however, you should always use Thunder III with Thundercloud procs as it's instant and more damage.
    (0)

  3. #143
    Player
    PessimiStick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    266
    Character
    Ippon Seionage
    World
    Diabolos
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 63
    Quote Originally Posted by Synovius View Post
    ...And Mecan was never heard from again. Seriously, he never returned to the thread after PessimiStick repeatedly called him out on his fluff posts and you posted this.

    Well done *lights a cigar and kicks back in his chair*.
    I'm pretty sure he got banned, since his posts are gone from the thread. As someone who has been "pruned" from official forums many times in the past, I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

    Edit: I disagree with using FS in front of TC. You should always use Thundercloud first, since you can't control the procs. If you FS --> TC, you can lose a second proc of TC because you hadn't used it when Thunder ticked again. It's impossible to lose a FS proc by using TC first, since you're not casting Fire.
    (0)

  4. #144
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Oh snap! Say it ain't so!
    (0)

  5. #145
    Player
    Psychosamm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    363
    Character
    Kaya Solimar
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Allyrion View Post
    Snip
    Hmm i hadn't thought of convert, thanks for the input! And i'll definitely try out T2 as opposed to T3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowzanon View Post
    Snip
    Thanks for the advice! I didn't really think about how that could take hate, i'll do what you suggested from now on. So instead of using swiftcast on F3 i would assume the next best thing to use it on would be Flare?
    (0)

  6. #146
    Player
    dragonflyseksparade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    232
    Character
    Dragonfly Seksparade
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Synovius View Post
    The only caveat is that Firestarter procs take priority over Thundercloud procs if both happen to be up at the same time.
    Why would you do this? If you use thundercloud first you could potentially get another thundercloud immediately. Whereas you will not get another Firestarter proc until you go back to Fire I spam.
    (1)
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  7. #147
    Player
    Synovius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    205
    Character
    Lala Swell
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by dragonflyseksparade View Post
    Why would you do this? If you use thundercloud first you could potentially get another thundercloud immediately. Whereas you will not get another Firestarter proc until you go back to Fire I spam.
    This does make a lot of sense and, honestly, I hadn't thought about it this way so kudos on bringing up a great point! My concern would be that Firestarter does more damage and if Thunder isn't about to fall off your target, then that means you'll get one more tick of Thunder (and thus the chance for a Thundercloud proc) anyway some time between casting Firestarter and up until you're ready to cast Thundercloud. I'm not 100% certain but I think, mathematically, it may be a wash in that sense. If somebody wants to churn some numbers, I'd love to see where the math leads on this.

    Thanks, Dragonfly!
    (1)

  8. #148
    Player
    EasymodeX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    900
    Character
    Lunairetic Emx
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 50
    Lol PessimiStick.
    (1)

  9. #149
    Player
    GreyJorildyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    500
    Character
    Grey Jorildyn
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychosamm View Post
    So instead of using swiftcast on F3 i would assume the next best thing to use it on would be Flare?
    Yes. There is a "best rotation" and it is "best practice" to know it as there are several dps checks in the game in later content. That is simply how the game was designed to be and there is no real way around it.

    Some interesting questions do come up, such as the one that was just asked about when does the AoE rotation become more potent than single target. The rule of thumb I apply to this is if there are 3+ mobs I go AoE, 1 or 2, single target each with a Fire II if I have Swift+Flare+Convert cycle handy. Timing issues like that are important as well, but move towards standardizing themselves when you run with a set group doing the same instance running it in a similar timeframe (X will always be up when at Y part of the instance, etc.).
    (0)
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  10. #150
    Player
    dragonflyseksparade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    232
    Character
    Dragonfly Seksparade
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Synovius View Post
    My concern would be that Firestarter does more damage and if Thunder isn't about to fall off your target, then that means you'll get one more tick of Thunder (and thus the chance for a Thundercloud proc) anyway some time between casting Firestarter and up until you're ready to cast Thundercloud. I'm not 100% certain but I think, mathematically, it may be a wash in that sense.
    It doesn't matter which proc does more damage. The two scenarios are as follows:

    Thunder III -> Fire III
    or
    Fire III -> Thunder III

    In both cases you've done the same amount of damage over the course of two GCDs. But the first of those two scenarios give you a chance at another Thundercloud proc immediately. The second of the two could result in a missed thundercloud if it were to proc again as you cast Fire III.

    It doesn't really matter how much time is left on your current thunder because thunder will never fall off of a single target in a normal rotation unless you get some amazing luck and had Firestarter proc on every single Fire I during the rotation.
    (0)
    Last edited by dragonflyseksparade; 11-08-2013 at 06:27 AM.
    Primary Class: Green number maker
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