The Black Mage Rotations

[Doogsi]

From what I can gather of this thread KyteStones is that Synovius and PessimiStick just like to talk a lot, yet don't exactly offer any good advice or seem to really understand the finer things of Black Mages.....

I'm sure we can all agree that you're the only one pissing here and making no points. Synovius introduced many of us to a new more powerful rotation. PessimiStick just backed his proposal with numbers. You come along and basically call them nubs and say your rotations are better even though we've already proved them inferior. Go back to your group and let them continue carrying you. We care not for your subjective advice. Have a nice day.

[Youmu]

Also, for the purposes of WP, rotation #3: F3 --> Flare --> B3
1 + 1 + 0.5 + 1 = 3.5 GCDs (The 0.5 is from the expected time for a mana tick from Mage's Ballad so that you can cast B3)
154s + 468 + 154s = 308 STP, 468 AEP
88 ST P/GCD, 133.7 AE P/GCD

In order for this to be better than Rotation #1, you'd need to have Ballad tick in less than 0.3 GCDs.

0.3 GCDs is roughly .75 second and mages ballad is every 1 second, meaning you're running a 75% chance of getting your mana tick in under 0.3 GCDs. The calculation should be 1+1+(0.1~0.4)+1 = 3.1~3.4 GCDs. You're methodology is flawed however, in that it doesnt take into account neither the increased single target DPS P/GCD weighed into the overall DPS, or the large returns on crit rate as average damage increases (1 int = 3.5 crit or more when average damage > 744), most notably by eliminating blizzard2 hits.

My, how this thread has went the last few days. Dont reply for 2 days and suddenly everyones bashing my rotation based off someones incorrect math.

[PessimiStick]

Mage's Ballad ticks every second? I should probably know since I have a 50 BRD, but I definitely wasn't under that impression. If it does actually tick every second, then F3/Flare/B3 is certainly competitive and possibly superior. I ignored the single-target DPS because it doesn't really have any impact on overall clear speed. Everything needs to die, so 1 or two mobs dying first doesn't actually change anything. Crit has a flat impact on everything. Crit is essentially just a (critrate * 1.5) modifier on whatever potency you're already outputting.

Edit: Mage's Ballad definitely does NOT tick every second on the BRD, at least. It's 3 seconds like everything else. It *may* act differently on other people, but I can't test that right now.

[Youmu]

Crit is essentially just a (critrate * 1.5) modifier on whatever potency you're already outputting

Please see the calculations at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...TDVkM1E#gid=23 . Average damage is heavily determined by the skills you use and number of mobs you hit. Start using mostly flares, and suddenly your 500 crit is worth an extra 40 int because your average damage is 1k+

Edit: Mage's Ballad definitely does NOT tick every second on the BRD, at least. It's 3 seconds like everything else. It *may* act differently on other people, but I can't test that right now.

Of course, its a different effect type entirely when BRD has it up. Any class receiving the buff gets its ticks every 1 second.

[PessimiStick]

Please see the calculations at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...TDVkM1E#gid=23 . Average damage is heavily determined by the skills you use and number of mobs you hit. Start using mostly flares, and suddenly your 500 crit is worth an extra 40 int because your average damage is 1k+

Stat weights have no bearing on the actual DPS of the rotations. That's why we're doing the calculations in Potency per second, because it's gear agnostic. Better gear will do more damage, but they both will place the same since the PPS is the same.

If MB does actually tick every second for others, then I agree that in the average case, you'd get a tick after ~0.21 GCDs, which would make F3/Flare/B3 superior at ~145.8 AEP/S.

Edit: Just got out of WP, and Ballad does NOT tick every second, even for others. It's 3, like every other tick. Original math is still valid.

[Youmu]

Stat weights have no bearing on the actual DPS of the rotations. That's why we're doing the calculations in Potency per second, because it's gear agnostic. Better gear will do more damage, but they both will place the same since the PPS is the same.

Its not stat weights, its the effect of your skill choice on your average damage. The higher your average damage, the higher the damage bonus you get from your criticals on average. When you're using nothing but fire3/flare/blizz3, your average damage skyrockets, because you're not spending time hitting mobs for 450-600 blizzard2 or fire2s, you're just flaring. All your calculations don't take this into account.

tl;dr - Crits mean more for flares than they do for blizzard/fire2s. The PPS should reflect that.

[PessimiStick]

Its not stat weights, its the effect of your skill choice on your average damage. The higher your average damage, the higher the damage bonus you get from your criticals on average. When you're using nothing but fire3/flare/blizz3, your average damage skyrockets, because you're not spending time hitting mobs for 450-600 blizzard2 or fire2s, you're just flaring. All your calculations don't take this into account.

tl;dr - Crits mean more for flares than they do for blizzard/fire2s. The PPS should reflect that.

A) Average damage = total damage / casts and/or GCDs, aka the same thing as DPS/PPS
B) No, they do not. Crits are just 1.5x damage for whatever crits. The only thing that matters is how much base damage you're doing, aka PPS.

[Borfin]

Its not stat weights, its the effect of your skill choice on your average damage. The higher your average damage, the higher the damage bonus you get from your criticals on average. When you're using nothing but fire3/flare/blizz3, your average damage skyrockets, because you're not spending time hitting mobs for 450-600 blizzard2 or fire2s, you're just flaring. All your calculations don't take this into account.

tl;dr - Crits mean more for flares than they do for blizzard/fire2s. The PPS should reflect that.

That's not how math and multiplication work. :P

150% damage is 150% damage whether that's for a 100 damage hit or a 1000 damage hit.

It means the same across the board.

[Youmu]

Everyones missing my point, and I'm just unsure of how to properly explain it. Ill come back to this tomorrow after I've had some sleep.

[Darkstarz]

Its not stat weights, its the effect of your skill choice on your average damage. The higher your average damage, the higher the damage bonus you get from your criticals on average. When you're using nothing but fire3/flare/blizz3, your average damage skyrockets, because you're not spending time hitting mobs for 450-600 blizzard2 or fire2s, you're just flaring. All your calculations don't take this into account.

tl;dr - Crits mean more for flares than they do for blizzard/fire2s. The PPS should reflect that.

If your looking solely at dmg on flares sure, crit is the way to go, what you dont take into account on the "big picture" is Cast times.

Bigger numbers does not equate to higher dps, Fire 3>Flare>Blizz 3 would be less damage than the "normal" Aoe Rotation due to Cast times and waiting for that mana tick after a flare.