Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Sorel]

i can say the same thing about letting everyone be everyone they have to balance every job for every class and make sure everything is well balance overall vs just balance it for 1-2class

Except that SE is not obligated to make every Job balanced with every Class if they don't dictate restrictions. SE does not have to maintain the illusion of balance between Archer-Paladin, Pugilist-Paladin, Lancer-Paladin, Marauder-Paladin, and Gladiator-Paladin. Archer-Paladin can totally suck compared to Gladiator-Paladin and SE wouldn't have to do anything about it.

That's because the player community would pretty much give a collective "Duh, of course! What else did you expect??". That would also hold true of Marauder-Paladin vs. Gladiator-Paladin. One may edge out the other in some aspect or another, but SE does not have to keep them balanced, because they let you have the entire gamut of possibilities for Paladin ... both great and not-so great.

Once SE states there can only be Marauder-Paladins & Gladiator-Paladins, they MUST keep the two balanced because their statement/restriction implies one should be as effective as the other. If one becomes more effective as a Paladin than the other, it invalidates the entire premise of having the restriction in the first place (i.e. to prevent not-so-great Class-Job combinations). So SE would have to constantly keep the two balanced.

Now multiply that constant balancing act across all the SE restricted Class-Jobs combinations ... versus ... having no restrictions and only nerfing two or three overpowered Class-Job combinations.

One may disagree with the policy of nerfing, but it is far easier and more efficient than re-balancing entire subsets of classes and jobs whenever a new Job or Class or Ability is introduced.

[Cairdeas]

Except that SE is not obligated to make every Job balanced with every Class if they don't dictate restrictions. SE does not have to maintain the illusion of balance between Archer-Paladin, Pugilist-Paladin, Lancer-Paladin, Marauder-Paladin, and Gladiator-Paladin. Archer-Paladin can totally suck compared to Gladiator-Paladin and SE wouldn't have to do anything about it.

That's because the player community would pretty much give a collective "Duh, of course! What else did you expect??". That would also hold true of Marauder-Paladin vs. Gladiator-Paladin. One may edge out the other in some aspect or another, but SE does not have to keep them balanced, because they let you have the entire gamut of possibilities for Paladin ... both great and not-so great.

Once SE states there can only be Marauder-Paladins & Gladiator-Paladins, they MUST keep the two balanced because their statement/restriction implies one should be as effective as the other. If one becomes more effective as a Paladin than the other, it invalidates the entire premise of having the restriction in the first place (i.e. to prevent not-so-great Class-Job combinations). So SE would have to constantly keep the two balanced.

Now multiply that constant balancing act across all the SE restricted Class-Jobs combinations ... versus ... having no restrictions and only nerfing two or three overpowered Class-Job combinations.

One may disagree with the policy of nerfing, but it is far easier and more efficient than re-balancing entire subsets of classes and jobs whenever a new Job or Class or Ability is introduced.

Sorel you really should just re-write my first post for me xD

[Amineri]

Except that SE is not obligated to make every Job balanced with every Class if they don't dictate restrictions. SE does not have to maintain the illusion of balance between Archer-Paladin, Pugilist-Paladin, Lancer-Paladin, Marauder-Paladin, and Gladiator-Paladin. Archer-Paladin can totally suck compared to Gladiator-Paladin and SE wouldn't have to do anything about it.

That's because the player community would pretty much give a collective "Duh, of course! What else did you expect??". That would also hold true of Marauder-Paladin vs. Gladiator-Paladin. One may edge out the other in some aspect or another, but SE does not have to keep them balanced, because they let you have the entire gamut of possibilities for Paladin ... both great and not-so great.

Once SE states there can only be Marauder-Paladins & Gladiator-Paladins, they MUST keep the two balanced because their statement/restriction implies one should be as effective as the other. If one becomes more effective as a Paladin than the other, it invalidates the entire premise of having the restriction in the first place (i.e. to prevent not-so-great Class-Job combinations). So SE would have to constantly keep the two balanced.

Now multiply that constant balancing act across all the SE restricted Class-Jobs combinations ... versus ... having no restrictions and only nerfing two or three overpowered Class-Job combinations.

One may disagree with the policy of nerfing, but it is far easier and more efficient than re-balancing entire subsets of classes and jobs whenever a new Job or Class or Ability is introduced.

I can get on-board with this argument. I think I'm like Cairdeas ... I think more in terms of logic and structure than in terms of people's perceptions (which I just don't get )

[Zenaku]

I can get on-board with this argument. I think I'm like Cairdeas ... I think more in terms of logic and structure than in terms of people's perceptions (which I just don't get )

it's about realism Final Fantasy have some type of realism and rule they follow yes each game have it own rule and some even break rules made from other Final fantasy but the main point SE is getting with ffxiv is realism. Look how much work they did into the world to get realism each gear in the game you can tell what it made of.

Now how Realistic is to see a PLD without a cape or sword? some use hammer but really don't think they add hammer as a Wep in the game. How Realistic to see a Monk use a G.K?

Allow Jobs to use more wep if it fit with there job Monk= Hand to hand and staff RDM=Staff,sword Samurai= G.K,Polearm,bows PLD= Sword,Great Sword Warrior = Sword,Great Axe, one hand-axe. But don't allow everyone to use everything

Like i said before if unlocking a job is at level 30 class then i just level up 1 class to max level and each one to 30 and i have all jobs max level 50 without level up the class pass 30 even if am gimp with spell i still got enough to party with.

[Cairdeas]

it's about realism Final Fantasy have some type of realism and rule they follow yes each game have it own rule and some even break rules made from other Final fantasy but the main point SE is getting with ffxiv is realism. Look how much work they did into the world to get realism each gear in the game you can tell what it made of.

Now how Realistic is to see a PLD without a cape or sword? some use hammer but really don't think they add hammer as a Wep in the game. How Realistic to see a Monk use a G.K?

Allow Jobs to use more wep if it fit with there job Monk= Hand to hand and staff RDM=Staff,sword Samurai= G.K,Polearm,bows PLD= Sword,Great Sword Warrior = Sword,Great Axe, one hand-axe. But don't allow everyone to use everything

Like i said before if unlocking a job is at level 30 class then i just level up 1 class to max level and each one to 30 and i have all jobs max level 50 without level up the class pass 30 even if am gimp with spell i still got enough to party with.

"Realistic" How realistic is it to suddenly forget how to use a sword because you've been training with a spear for a while and mastered a special skill that teaches you how to jump into the air really high and crash on to a enemy? Not very realistic at all >.>

[Lerris]

"Realistic" How realistic is it to suddenly forget how to use a sword because you've been training with a spear for a while and mastered a special skill that teaches you how to jump into the air really high and crash on to a enemy? Not very realistic at all >.>

How realistic is it to learn an advanced spear technique and still have access to it when you equip a sword?

A lot depends on how these new jobs are presented. I would hope the lore and the mechanics are internally consistent whichever way they implement it.

[Cairdeas]

How realistic is it to learn an advanced spear technique and still have access to it when you equip a sword?

A lot depends on how these new jobs are presented. I would hope the lore and the mechanics are internally consistent whichever way they implement it.

Most weapons of war maneuvers learned can be borrowed or shared amongst many other weapons.

Learning to block a downward strike with the shaft of your weapon? Pole Arms, Axes, Swords, etc. can do that?

Stab a person directly into the heart? hard to do for an ax because its slashing and crushing and not piercing.

[Lerris]

Most weapons of war maneuvers learned can be borrowed or shared amongst many other weapons.

Learning to block a downward strike with the shaft of your weapon? Pole Arms, Axes, Swords, etc. can do that?

Stab a person directly into the heart? hard to do for an ax because its slashing and crushing and not piercing.

This is true. The armory system already covers moves that are adaptable across weapon types. The job system contains abilities that they have stated are not adaptable across jobs. Whether they're adaptable across weapon-types... that is the bigger question.

Is a dragoon's jump a mystical ability, or are they using the pole of the spear to vault themselves into the air? We don't know. Which is what undermines your realism argument.

You're making assumptions, the other side is making different assumptions, and you're not arguing from the same starting point.

[Reika]

Most weapons of war maneuvers learned can be borrowed or shared amongst many other weapons.

Learning to block a downward strike with the shaft of your weapon? Pole Arms, Axes, Swords, etc. can do that?

Stab a person directly into the heart? hard to do for an ax because its slashing and crushing and not piercing.

Bill-type Axes have piercing

[Amineri]

Like i said before if unlocking a job is at level 30 class then i just level up 1 class to max level and each one to 30 and i have all jobs max level 50 without level up the class pass 30 even if am gimp with spell i still got enough to party with.

Not that SE hasn't ever introduced broken mechanics before, but this one isn't very hard to counter.

Rank 30 in class opens quest for level 1 in job
Rank 35 in class opens quest for level 2 in job
Rank 40 in class opens quest for level 3 in job
Rank 45 in class opens quest for level 4 in job
Rank 50 in class opens quest for level 5 in job

Taking your example, ranking one class to 50, and the rest to 30. You have a couple of jobs at level 5, and the rest at level 1. Better go rank the rest of your classes to be able to unlock higher levels in your other jobs!

(Presumably, each new level in a job opens up more of it's special abilities. So, playing as a level 1 job with a rank 50 class would be kinda gimp compared to level 5 job with rank 50 class.)