Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Arcell]

I was always under the impression Shepherd was a DoL class considering it was listed with the others in the Alpha dat mine. Also the one NPC that actually mentions the class sells DoL equipment in Limsa.

[Cairdeas]

I was always under the impression Shepherd was a DoL class considering it was listed with the others in the Alpha dat mine. Also the one NPC that actually mentions the class sells DoL equipment in Limsa.

I was just guessing with Shepard.

Beastmaster's the closest job to it from XI and other games and they tended to use Hand Axes as their primary weapon (based on stats)

The hand Axe would be used to cuttle skins and stuff from dead monster? I dunno. I just don't know how shepard could be implemented without it being a sort of amalgamation of Puppet Master and Beastmaster. Being a Pet Class in DOW.

[Malakhim]

Hey guys?

You ever think about having a Final Fantasy game without a bloody Red Mage? Or a class/job combination being called something else?

Equip the Red Magic job on a DoW class, get a Red Mage combination that focuses on enfeebles and effective(albeit to a lesser degree) magic and melee combat.

Equip the Red Magic job on a DoM class, get a Sage combination that focuses on higher level BLK/WHI magic and/or buffs, but less melee proficiency.

Problem solved.

Forget ruminating about Red Mage. Your heads are going to explode.

[Zenaku]

Hey guys?

You ever think about having a Final Fantasy game without a bloody Red Mage? Or a class/job combination being called something else?

Equip the Red Magic job on a DoW class, get a Red Mage combination that focuses on enfeebles and effective(albeit to a lesser degree) magic and melee combat.

Equip the Red Magic job on a DoM class, get a Sage combination that focuses on higher level BLK/WHI magic and/or buffs, but less melee proficiency.

Problem solved.

Forget ruminating about Red Mage. Your heads are going to explode.

no lol Final fantasy xiv fail because they did not use FF names and yoshi-p is trying to add that back in to the game sadly i wish they just delete all the class and make them into jobs with the right FF names and the right name of spells but that just me lol.

[Sorel]

Outside of the original Final Fantasy Tactics, I don't think there has ever been a Final Fantasy title that did not have a Red Mage (i.e. a sword wielding character that could cast a small amount of White and Black Magic). Maybe FFX-2. I didn't play that game long enough to explore every Barbie-Dress-Up sphere.

[Cairdeas]

I believe this might have been remedied in WoTL with the introduction of Onion Knights that let you equip two sub skills so you could have white and black magic equipped on a Sword user.

[Amineri]

Caught up on the current "state of the argument".

Seems like people are arguing the two extremes...

1) Jobs and classes are completely unlocked, allowing any combination of job and class
2) Jobs and classes are completely locked, so that each job is only allowed on one class (the one the opened it up)

There is a LOT of room in-between these two extremes. There is certainly the possibility that a particular class opens up a job, and that class has the highest affinity to that job, but that some OTHER classes can still be used with the job, even if not all of them are.

Option 1 allows the most player freedom, but also creates the most burden for the developers, in allowing every combination balancing becomes potentially more difficult. It also creates the most confusing situation for players (especially new players), as the myriad choices could be overwhelming. Also, certain class/job combinations may not fit with the game story-lore that SE is creating.

Option 2 is the most restrictive for players, and essentially locks players into the single role as SE envisions it, not as the player envisions it. This option also has problems with lore, primarily the historical final fantasy lore wherein multiple weapons (even if not all) were available to most jobs.

Both sides of the discussion have some good points -- as I read more and more, I think that the middle road is more appropriate.

Each job can have a small number of allowed classes it can be equipped with.

Some jobs may have more (e.g. WAR, RDM), some jobs may have fewer (e.g. WHM, DRG). This also allows SE the ability to unlock more job/class combinations later, if they feel it is beneficial (and after they have the time to balance the combination.)

So. What are the objections to this system?

[Lerris]

Caught up on the current "state of the argument".

Seems like people are arguing the two extremes...

1) Jobs and classes are completely unlocked, allowing any combination of job and class
2) Jobs and classes are completely locked, so that each job is only allowed on one class (the one the opened it up)

There is a LOT of room in-between these two extremes. There is certainly the possibility that a particular class opens up a job, and that class has the highest affinity to that job, but that some OTHER classes can still be used with the job, even if not all of them are.

Option 1 allows the most player freedom, but also creates the most burden for the developers, in allowing every combination balancing becomes potentially more difficult. It also creates the most confusing situation for players (especially new players), as the myriad choices could be overwhelming. Also, certain class/job combinations may not fit with the game story-lore that SE is creating.

Option 2 is the most restrictive for players, and essentially locks players into the single role as SE envisions it, not as the player envisions it. This option also has problems with lore, primarily the historical final fantasy lore wherein multiple weapons (even if not all) were available to most jobs.

Both sides of the discussion have some good points -- as I read more and more, I think that the middle road is more appropriate.

Each job can have a small number of allowed classes it can be equipped with.

Some jobs may have more (e.g. WAR, RDM), some jobs may have fewer (e.g. WHM, DRG). This also allows SE the ability to unlock more job/class combinations later, if they feel it is beneficial (and after they have the time to balance the combination.)

So. What are the objections to this system?

Same as option 2. Allowing the jobs to played on a limited number of classes is no different than allowing each to play on one, as the options are defined as SE envisions them rather than as the player envisions them.

I like the unlimited flexibility possibility, but feel it's an unrealistic expectation due to the balancing complexity on top of the armoury system. I'd rather see a balanced system that works over a system that's broken because the developers found the complexity unmanageable.

[Sorel]

Each job can have a small number of allowed classes it can be equipped with.

Some jobs may have more (e.g. WAR, RDM), some jobs may have fewer (e.g. WHM, DRG). This also allows SE the ability to unlock more job/class combinations later, if they feel it is beneficial (and after they have the time to balance the combination.)

So. What are the objections to this system?

By having some Jobs that can have more allowed classes than other Jobs, you create a built-in mathematical imbalance that would have to be compensated for. Otherwise, you get Jobs that are more versatile than others, making them more valuable in a party (case in point RDM/WHM vs. WHM/BLM in FFXI). The Development Team would have to balance that out, since they imposed the arbitrary limit in the first place, and implied that any combination that they dictated should be effective at something.

But if there are no restrictions, the Development Team does not have to (though they may still want to) balance the various combinations out, because they never officially endorsed any particular one. If you decide to play a Lancer with a Paladin Job, it's completely OK for you to suck. SE probably won't do anything to make you comparable to a Gladiator with the same Paladin Job.

If however, SE says you are allowed to play Gladiator, Marauder, and Lancer with the Paladin Job, now they have to make sure that all three combinations are balanced because they dictated it.

That's why restrictions and dictates cause MORE balance issues than letting players decide what should and should not be combined.

[Amineri]

If however, SE says you are allowed to play Gladiator, Marauder, and Lancer with the Paladin Job, now they have to make sure that all three combinations are balanced because they dictated it.

You raise a good point, regarding player expectations that, in a limited scenario, all available options would be "equally as good".

However, I was thinking of the opposite situation. If all job/class combinations are available, and SE hasn't had time to test all combinations (very likely), there is a good possibility of a completely game-breaking combination coming out that SE didn't foresee.

Having those 'overpowered' combinations in the game, and then removing or nerfing them later, seems to create more ill-will than simply not having the combination available at the beginning.

I guess the question is which option would damage player expections more:

1. OMG, SE made WAR/LNC more gimp than WAR/GLA .... waaaah!
2. OMG, SE just nerfed my awesome DRG/THM that I spent months leveling up ... waaaah!
3. OMG, SE only allows me to play WAR/GLA, not WAR/MRD .... waaaah!