Warrior "buff" in 2.1: not what we are expecting?

[HiirNoivl]

...What? But there's only 1 strat for Turn 4!!!

No.. there's not. Your DPS just has to be high enough. You can definitely tank the dreadnaughts as WAR the same way you can MT Caduceus. People said that MTing Caduceus as WAR was impossible, but it is possible, and it's not difficult. Turn 4 is the same. The Dreadnaughts are spoken of like they're some sort of impossible God-Mob.

They're not.

[CurlyBruce]

4 Stack Dread is the same as phase 1 Caduceus

Notice how I gave other possible strategies. Funny how instead of actually saying or showing how you would overcome the situations you make some completely irrelevant statement about Caduceus. Pro-tip WAR can MT Caduceus because he only stays in his first form for maybe 2 minutes and during that time he will never go higher than 1 stack if your OT isn't retarded. After the split, the snake will be dead by the time it's up to 4 stacks where it becomes a threat again. 4 Stack Dread hits a shitload harder than Caduceus and he's at 4 stack for the entire time you are tanking him. There are times where PLDs can get insta-gibbed to 4 stack Dread or double Dreads if heals are even slightly off on timing. Considering you already think it's impossible for PLD to hold both dreads with 1 stack or more, I'm gonna go ahead and say you have no clue what you are talking about.

[HiirNoivl]

Notice how I gave other possible strategies.

Ah yeah I MT'ed there The Dread that people talk about having 4 stacks on, is the same as Caduceus if it doesn't have any bug stacks. Not with them. That was my Mistype.

Yeah I lived through 6 stacks for the win today.

I'm just bad and explaining. You guys'll figure it out sometime.

Basically....

Wrath V --> Big hit ---> Cures --> Cooldown

In that order. The bigger the hit the bigger your cooldown needs to be. So, Caduceus with no stacks will be IB no buffs. With 2-3 stacks it will be IB with Berserk... if you're above 3 stacks it's Wrath V --> ToB -->Hoodswing-->Cures---Inner Beast ---> Infuriate


Faaaaceroolll...

Turn 2 is easier because you're only tanking half the time, but you want to use your IB cooldowns right before the tank-switch. It's really easy to keep Wrath V stacks so this should be all you need. If people are messing up and dying you always have your other cooldowns so it's not even an issue.

[Leiron]

You do realize that your explanation suggests being much more reliant upon the healers, rather than it being a result of the Warriors cooldown capabilities, right?
To even suggest Warrior and Paladin are equal in anyway is wrong.
The only area that a Warrior can claim to be as good if not better in, is enmity generation.
This is not to say Warriors cannot do the same content as Paladins but that they do it with greater difficulty.

[HiirNoivl]

You do realize that your explanation suggests being much more reliant upon the healers, rather than it being a result of the Warriors cooldown capabilities, right?
To even suggest Warrior and Paladin are equal in anyway is wrong.
The only area that a Warrior can claim to be as good if not better in, is enmity generation.
This is not to say Warriors cannot do the same content as Paladins but that they do it with greater difficulty.

If you're not using the heal buff from Wrath V as mitigation, you're doing it wrong.

I use only two cooldowns in Turn 2 for example. Inner Beast and Foresight (and maybe Second Wind as a snack). Otherwise, I only use Wrath V. Our WHM set a new record for a single cure on me last night thanks to a crit, Wrath V and SCH heal buff.

So, Thrill is like Hallowed, only Hallowed is 10 seconds where your healers ignore you, and ToB is where your healers have to keep healing you. And Hallowed is where you can't die, and ToB is where you can. . .

Yep, so similar.

I really have to ask..

Hiir, do you honestly think ToB is comparable to HG? Like, for real? You're not meaning, "The closest thing we have", or anything?

I need only one heal because of Wrath V and ToB after taking 4k damage. Inner Beast negated all damage taken after that. The only difference is that if the damage is large enough I might need one heal, but after that I can be left alone.

It's hard to explain but after ToB fades I'm immediately back at full power, its like I've taken no damage. Basically, so long as I use my own cooldowns to stay above 80% my boosted health (which isn't that difficult.) My healer is not curing me. And after I'm back down to regular health I'm full. It has the same effect of HG. I tend to use it when damage spikes or when someone dies. I've done it when the healer dies. It's a free few moments where I'm not getting any heals.

As a WAR you still have to use your cooldowns, so that's the only difference between ToB and HG. You can't just go completely AFK. But that's actually fine. PLD can't handle taking as much damage as me. PLD Needs the damage to stop coming to survive.. So I don't envy them their Hallowed Ground.

The WAR vs PLD debate is a joke in our static. We laugh at people who say that WAR is somehow less than PLD because it doesn't allow groups to screw up or suck. We tease the PLD when he dies and tell him to go WAR. We laugh after we don't bother even passing the mob at 7 stacks of vulnerability and they pretend to whine and say "I'm WAR I can't take damage. Boohoo" The comments we make on TeamSpeak really bolster my confidence in the fact that people don't care that I'm a WAR because I know how to play it.

[Bigpurpleharness]

.

I'm not saying WAR can't take anything, I'm saying you're probably better served learning math and scientific method if you can't identify one is better suited for mitigating damage with 15 seconds and mental math. I don't care if it makes you feel special that you're doing something the hard way for shits and giggles. The goal is to make classes balanced, and again, 15 seconds and some mental math...

[HiirNoivl]

I'm not saying WAR can't take anything, I'm saying you're probably better served learning math and scientific method if you can't identify one is better suited for mitigating damage with 15 seconds and mental math. I don't care if it makes you feel special that you're doing something the hard way for shits and giggles. The goal is to make classes balanced, and again, 15 seconds and some mental math...

Seriously, it's getting to 2 months after launch and people are still "theorycrafting" WAR while other jobs are already theorycrafted and have rotations established. That is telling. People are not playing WAR and so they don't know how to do it.



I don't bother any more with the theorycrafting because I already know the rotations and skill-combos for a variety of ingame situations. I've communicated these to my team and anyone else with ears to listen. We have strats crafted in Coil and that's all we need. There's no need for the "scientific method" when you already know what works and what doesn't.

So Thrill of Battle is the same as Hallowed Ground....except that you have to blow your other cooldowns to survive the same 10s a PLD does doing literally nothing. You also don't seem to realize that a PLD has other cooldowns as well.

Those are cool downs you would have used anyway...... -.- You literally do nothing different than what you were doing before.

WAR is getting Inner Beast and Wrath modified to placate a playerbase that took offense at Yoshi P's words at the TGS instead of taking them to heart. That and the fact that PLD was OP to begin with. There's not much more to it than that.

WAR is fine. It's not OP but there's nothin wrong with it.

[Vyserion]

I need only one heal because of Wrath V and ToB after taking 4k damage. Inner Beast negated all damage taken after that. The only difference is that if the damage is large enough I might need one heal, but after that I can be left alone.

It's hard to explain but after ToB fades I'm immediately back at full power, its like I've taken no damage. Basically, so long as I use my own cooldowns to stay above 80% my boosted health (which isn't that difficult.) My healer is not curing me. And after I'm back down to regular health I'm full. It has the same effect of HG. I tend to use it when damage spikes or when someone dies. I've done it when the healer dies. It's a free few moments where I'm not getting any heals.

As a WAR you still have to use your cooldowns, so that's the only difference between ToB and HG. You can't just go completely AFK. But that's actually fine. PLD can't handle taking as much damage as me. PLD Needs the damage to stop coming to survive.. So I don't envy them their Hallowed Ground.

The WAR vs PLD debate is a joke in our static. We laugh at people who say that WAR is somehow less than PLD because it doesn't allow groups to screw up or suck. We tease the PLD when he dies and tell him to go WAR. We laugh after we don't bother even passing the mob at 7 stacks of vulnerability and they pretend to whine and say "I'm WAR I can't take damage. Boohoo" The comments we make on TeamSpeak really bolster my confidence in the fact that people don't care that I'm a WAR because I know how to play it.

I'm playing catchup here but, it sounds a great deal like your argument is "I know how to play my class, My class is fine. Everyone who disagrees is just bad," and you've been using specific anecdotal evidence to point out how your FC is doing fine in BC with you there, so your class is both fine and equal to Paladin. This is ridiculous for a lot of reasons, but everyone has essentially pointed out these facts.


PLD has greater default mitigation, a wider pool of defensive cooldowns, and an Immunity button. Warrior's only benefit is threat generation. It looks like it has a higher health pool, but those numbers are deceptive, and every single healer in the game will tell you that warriors feel squishier than paladins, to the point that it becomes problematic (or at least annoying) in later content. Now, does any of this mean warriors aren't viable? No.

But it does mean that the level of balance between PLD and WAR heavily favors PLD, which is why most Coil groups run double PLD. It's why you can practically feel the groan when a WAR shows up in a Titan HM group. The class itself is simply weaker. And you're not going anyone any favors by seeming to argue that things should stay that way.

[Viridiana]

if you're above 3 stacks it's Wrath V --> ToB -->Hoodswing-->Cures---Inner Beast ---> Infuriate

So, Thrill is like Hallowed, only Hallowed is 10 seconds where your healers ignore you, and ToB is where your healers have to keep healing you. And Hallowed is where you can't die, and ToB is where you can. . .

Yep, so similar.