The Black Mage Rotations

[PessimiStick]

I've done a lot more math than you my friend. I never stated that I did a F3 - > Flare -> B3 repeat. You're assuming way too much. Again, nitpicking for no good reason. You're basically having arguments with no one, responding to comments that were not written. You just assume I do something one way and respond to it.

What magical rotation are you using then where Ballad matters? Feel free to enlighten us. Now's your chance!

[Mecan]

What magical rotation are you using then where Ballad matters? Feel free to enlighten us. Now's your chance!

Depends on the quality of the Rotation you're looking for, the situation in which it is use, and the encounter which follows that situation. Do you want Food added into the Equation? Do you want Pots/Elixers added onto of that? There are quite a few ways to get the results you want and often you will work with your team to properly execute them on the target. A very potent AoE Rotation is not the sole responsibility of the Black Mage. Normally in a high-pace battle where AoE Rotations are use, you are working under a time limit and cooperating with other people to make it happen. My Coil Team has 2 Bards, so utilize Mages Ballad and Foe Requiem at the same time to increase the potency of such Rotations along with Food, Elixers, and Intelligence Potions.

[PessimiStick]

More fluff. Tell me what rotation you're using that requires ballad. Until that time I'm just going to continue assuming you're full of it.

[NeoAmon]

I'm just happy to see there are many team work strategies that works for us ^^.

Just a quick question anyone uses Thunder 3 to control their threat? In my coil group I'm more geared than my tanks and Thunder 3 & QS works like magic in keeping my threat in check .

In Turn 4 for example, at the first Solider & Knight I use the following rotation:

Target Solider 1 (MT) > Bliz 3 > Thunder 3 > Switch to Solider 2 (OT) > Thunder 3 > Switch back to Solider 1 > QS > Fire 3 > normal fire rotation.

This rotation solved all my threat problems with out effecting my dps at all. Still highest DD in my coil group and no threat issues.

Note: wither you use thunder II or III, doting both soldiers gives you a better chance of getting Thundercloud procs .

[EasymodeX]

F3 has no proc, and the mana cost increase is higher than the potency increase. F3 is 47% more potent, but 67% more expensive, and it can't proc a free version of itself. It's going to be worse in 99.9% of cases (edge cases where mob dies before OOM and your F1 didn't proc, etc.).

Isn't the cost of F3 reduced in UI3 stance? The F3x2 approach seems similar to the F3-Flare double-dipping abuse, except for single target.

[PessimiStick]

Isn't the cost of F3 reduced in UI3 stance? The F3x2 approach seems similar to the F3-Flare double-dipping abuse, except for single target.

99% sure it doesn't work like that. Cast time is determined at cast (obviously), but damage and mana cost are evaluated at completion. It's why your double dipped flare does full damage, etc. You get the cast speed bonus from UI3, but the damage and mana cost from AF3, since it is applied before your second cast comes out.

Edit: Looked at my character's mana pool and did some napkin math. I'm as positive as I can be without actually testing it right now.

[EasymodeX]

Nifty. I wonder if the mana cost inefficiency of F3 is still worth it for the sheer cast time reduction from the double dip though, over a full cycle.

[PessimiStick]

Hasted F3 and F1 both cost 1 GCD, so it's essentially just a Cost/Benefit thing.

F1 is 638 mana for 270 potency, F3 is 1064 for 396
0.423 vs. 0.372 Potency/Mana, and that excludes the F1's 40% chance for Firestarter.

Edit: It *may* be possible that there are situations where F3 could be superior, like when you had to pay for your initial F3, and you don't have 251 Pie. There are times where I *just* miss my cutoff of 1674 mana, in which case I could have double dipped the F3 and still had the same number of casts. In that case, you'd have to evaluate F3's damage against the expected damage of F1+FS, which is 428, but also costs and extra GCD, so there's a lot more math needed that I don't have time to do right now, hah. And even then, I'm not sure you can *recognize* that you had to pay for the first one in time to change to a double dipped F3 anyway.

[EasymodeX]

I mean it accelerates the whole cycle too.

1a. F3 - F1 - [F1x4 + F3 x2] - B3 - T2 /repeat 100% of the time

2a. F3 - F3 - [F1x3 + F3 x1] - B3 - T2 /repeat 80% of the time
2b. F3 - F3 - [F1x3 + F3 x2] - B3 - T2 /repeat 20% of the time


So that would be ...

220*.7 + 150*1.8 + [150*1.8*4 + 220*1.8*2] + 220*.7 + 250 = 2700

220*.7 + 220*1.8 + [150*1.8*3 + 220*1.8*1] + 220*.7 + 250 = 2160
220*.7 + 220*1.8 + [150*1.8*3 + 220*1.8*2] + 220*.7 + 250 = 2556

For time [gcds]:

1 - 1 - [6] - 1 - 1.2 = 10.2

1 - 1 - [4] - 1 - 1.2 = 8.2
1 - 1 - [5] - 1 - 1.2 = 9.2

Scenario 1: 2700 / 10.2 = 264.7 p/gcd.

Scenarios 2: [.8*2160 + .2*2556] / [.8*8.2 + .2*9.2] = 266.6 p/gcd.


I'm not entirely sure that I have the modifiers (cast times and stance buff values) accurate, though.

Edited based on corrections.

Edit: Holds true at a smaller gap with 1 less Fire1 cast.

[PessimiStick]

First change is that you're casting too many F1s in any case. For someone with 251 PIE, you get 5 Fire 1s per cycle. With < 251 PIE, you get 4 or 5 Fire Is, and I'm not sure on the frequency of each. It depends on when your mana ticks during the initial F3. GCDs are all 1 except for the hardcast thunder refresh and the initial cast to start your rotation (if you don't swiftcast it). The only thing this changes in your numbers is the 1.4 you have for B3 should be 1 instead.

Edit: I feel like you really need some probability modelling to really answer the question. There are multiple outcomes for your fire casts in a given cycle.
0 FS procs
1 FS proc - used in AF3
1 FS proc - on last fire, used with AF1 via transpose
2 FS procs - after second fire, after 4th fire, or after 3rd and 5th
2 FS procs - one in AF3, one in AF1 via transpose
3 FS procs - after second fire, after 4th fire, in AF1 after transpose

Double dipping F3 to start means that any time you would have been able to FS after the 4th cast above, you're forced to use that with AF1 on your restart. Not sure whether that's a good thing or a bad thing.


For your edit with cast #/time corrections, the potency for 2b is incorrect because you won't ever get 2 AF3 Fire 3s in the same cycle. If you proc twice, the second one will always be an AF1 version on the restart, since you're already casting B3 when the second FS would proc.