Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Cairdeas]

Well, in order for a Red Mage to be a Red Mage "traditionally" the need to be able to do a few things.

1. Use Swords.
2. Cast Black Magic.
3. Cast White Magic.
4. Gain a Doublecast/Chainspell like ability.

Now under the Armory System, a character can't fulfill #1 unless they are a Gladiator. The other things can be cross-classed in. Therefore, Red Mages have to be Gladiators. That's the stone-cold logic of the existing system.

Seems kinda unfair to Conjurers and Thaumaturges doesn't it?? They will NEVER be able to be Red Mages simply because they use twigs and legbones as their weapons.

Now I ask if that is what we want as a player base? If so, cool. Let The Development Team know. If not, also cool. Again, we need to let the Development Team know.

Exactly. I'm not trying to promote this because I specifically want a White Mage / Marauder (Though I think it would be fun) I'm promoting it because theres specific ideas of how Traditional Jobs should be that would not be possible if they limit Jobs to the class that unlocks them, not without breaking lots of already stone cold rules.

[Carpe]

It's not that anything is wrong with it, its just we don't want that.

You obviously do so its just a matter or how many people want a mish mash to add to the existing mish mash.

And how many want to add some restriction and specialisation to the existing mish mash.

You're not adding to the "mish mash". The classes are getting reworked so they'll have a stronger sense of role/identity intrinsically, whether they were to add a job system or not. The job system is being added to let you specialize in a play-style for party play. If the jobs and classes are each well defined internally than letting they combine freely just allows for more role/play-style possibilities.

A DRK/GLA is similar but different to a DRK/MRD, to a DRK/LNC, etc.
Same as DRK/WAR, DRK/THF, DRK/BLM, DRK/NIN, etc. it's not "messy" to have all those variants of DRKs, the differences make sense and each sub compliments DRK differently to create a unique playstyle/role for each where each excels in different situations.

[Zenaku]

Again. A Conjurer/Samurai wouldn't be the best choice but the game shouldn't enforce that by locking the choice out, it should enforce it with a system that properly balances those options so the player can determine if that choice is no good. Once it has been no player use it if its that bad.

Also You have to reflect on the issue that your character isn't just your class and your Job.

Its a mix of all kinds of things.

1. Weapon Class
2. Job
3. Assigned Stats
4. Physical Appearance through Gear
5. Assisted Stats through Gear.
6. Personal Choice.

The system you want wants to cut everything out of the equation and make the Character be about the first two only.





It isn't, its just evidence that people still confuse Class with Job and think they are synonymous when they are not.

it does not matter what you say at the end players would make you play with the wep is best for the job so why even have it if you never going to use it? like why would i level up polearm? if the only time am allow is in bird camp? and even then most ppl say no? it just a dumb idea overall at the end you can still solo with your fav class and wep without making yourself a job. But once you switch over a job they make you pick the best wep and the best spell for that job just like in ffxi you not allow to do anything if not best overall.

I could never do sam/war because i have to be sam/nin i can never test out monk/whm because i have to be monk/nin the only time i can test this is soloing.

[Cairdeas]

it does not matter what you say at the end players would make you play with the wep is best for the job so why even have it if you never going to use it? like why would i level up polearm? if the only time am allow is in bird camp? and even then most ppl say no? it just a dumb idea overall at the end you can still solo with your fav class and wep without making yourself a job. But once you switch over a job they make you pick the best wep and the best spell for that job just like in ffxi you not allow to do anything if not best overall.

I could never do sam/war because i have to be sam/nin i can never test out monk/whm because i have to be monk/nin the only time i can test this is soloing.

You played with the wrong people I was Sam/War or Sam/Dnc my entire career in XI.I never used /nin except for Thief and Dnc and that was only until Dnc could dual wield on its own.


Hell. I main Healed as a Sam/Dnc in a party and for BCNM's.

[Zenaku]

You played with the wrong people I was Sam/War or Sam/Dnc my entire career in XI.I never used /nin except for Thief and Dnc and that was only until Dnc could dual wield on its own.


Hell. I main Healed as a Sam/Dnc in a party and for BCNM's.

-.- Not wrong people the right people if you ever play around whitegate you was not allow in a party or endgame without /ninja there only a few reason you be sam/war or sam/dnc but most of the time you needed /nin.

[Warlyx]

thats because utsemi is OP ..........even as sub ....

[Sorel]

at the end you can still solo with your fav class and wep without making yourself a job.

And there's the rub. Once we start down the road of only allowing what is useful in party (whatever the powers determine that to be) to exist in the game, we start disallowing what players can do solo.

"You can play a solo Red Mage, but only using a sword."

or

"You can play solo with a staff, but you can't be a Red Mage while doing so."

Either way, it would amount to the same thing. Whatever the powers that be dictate as the "proper" way to play a Job will be the only way you are allowed to play it. Party. Solo. Period.

[Speeral]

Correct me if I am wrong but the current system already allows for a mish mash or everything and you can be a pug with fists and still tank or gimp heal if you wanted to? I don't understand why create an open system to an open system. The reason SE is adding the job/role/specialization system is to give us the player a direction of what we want to do in a party setting, because with the current system people cannot already figure it out.

We asked for the game to be open and allow freedom . . . . the game comes out

players complain there is no focus and said give us roles, because we cannot decide it for ourselves.. . . .

now that is exactly what yoshi and SE are doing and now people are saying no I want the freedom back?

I understand from what yoshi said and I am going to quote him

A number of plans made at the beginning of the year will soon be ripe for release. Among these are the shiny new job system (a proper system, mind you, not just renamed classes)

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/11012

Just in case someone cries foul. This is an entire new system meant to pull from what is currently there. This means or at least I understand it and from what matsui said in his piece changes are coming that will tie us the player to the class we are going to be playing

By major revisions, not only do we mean the tweaking of effects and potency of existing actions - we will work from the ground up to redesign and reassign actions based on clearly identified class roles.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...form-Blueprint


so it seems to me with the battle system there will be rigidities built into place forcing the player into roles, classes, and jobs. All of which at all times are not always interchangeable.

So Cairderas I don't think what you are asking for is going to happen. From my reading and understanding it seems we will be locked in some ways based on skills and weapon would be my guess.

[Chinook]

I think your misunderstanding what they said about jobs.

In the end Once you assign a Job your Job Actions, and Class Actions/Cross-Class Actions get narrowed down into only a few select choices. After that the only thing your weapon does is define stats, and define how you do damage in a fight. If you use an Axe your physical attacks will mostly be AOE. if you us a Conjurer Staff your spells will cast AOE in a circle.

Etc.

That's where the misunderstanding about this occurs since we have different views of jobs.

In my view, White Mage HAS to be tied to Conjurer because it's using the healing/buffing spells of Conjurer (Cure, Protect, Stoneskin, etc ...) and enhancing them/adding new tiers. It is a job, but only a specialisation from the Conjurer class. Any other class can still equip magics from Conjurer, but won't get access to the elite spells of Conjurer that are WHM or BLM only.

In your view, White Mage only gives access to new skills, can be separated from the healing side of Conjurer and apllied to any class.

We'll have to wait and see.

[Zenaku]

And there's the rub. Once we start down the road of only allowing what is useful in party (whatever the powers determine that to be) to exist in the game, we start disallowing what players can do solo.

"You can play a solo Red Mage, but only using a sword."

or

"You can play solo with a staff, but you can't be a Red Mage while doing so."

Either way, it would amount to the same thing. Whatever the powers that be dictate as the "proper" way to play a Job will be the only way you are allowed to play it. Party. Solo. Period.

My point they try really hard to make RDM a warrior type mage that can attack did we allow them? hell no there was in the back line doing noting but ref spell all day long.

Matter if the game allow you to make your own class at the end you be shut down and not invite if you don't have this type of spell and blah blah blah this is why class would be for solo and job would be for party. you want to have mage spell? and still be a monk? ok do that by yourself and solo.But in a party you most be a monk and only be allow to use this and that.

Even now as a Pug i need spell from other class to even party good and do good dmg.