White Mage: You should DPS and here's why.

[Varok899]

Not just another pretty face..

If you can't compaire Stoneskin's function with Cure, why would Regen be any different?

I see Divine Seal as a comeback spell (as in after Garuda takes half of everyones health in 1 hit), and I sure I'm not the only one. Besides, if I saw a WHM pop Divine Seal every chance they had, I'd wonder if they could heal effectively without it. That's exactly what it would imply.
Spamming it also lowers the chances of haveing it available when you actually need it. I shouldn't even have to say that, but I know I'd be forced to later if I don't.

I'll also take this moment to note an observation. Almost everyone here is focusing purely on lvl 50 players with a glvl of 60+, when the thread affects everyone over lvl 30.

You really don't seem to understand anything I said... Stoneskin costs twice as much MP and 50% more time to do something a Cure 1 would do on average, why would I ever use SS in this situation? Please tell me.

And using Divine seal + regen every pull is not about "not being able to heal without it" (lol) but about creating time for you to dps. With that heal rolling you can dps all you want without a care in the world. This IS situational barring gear levels and whether you know the tank/dps, but when you CAN do it you SHOULD do it.

Divine seal is not an "Oh shit" button especially in dungeons that I far outgear, I'll use it on cooldown because its efficient, not because I "need" it. Its got a 1 minute cooldown ffs, USE IT. Obviously on a HM primal fight you save it for the right time but that's not what we are talking about..

[Zanika]

You really don't seem to understand anything I said... Stoneskin costs twice as much MP and 50% more time to do something a Cure 1 would do on average, why would I ever use SS in this situation? Please tell me.

And using Divine seal + regen every pull is not about "not being able to heal without it" (lol) but about creating time for you to dps. With that heal rolling you can dps all you want without a care in the world. This IS situational barring gear levels and whether you know the tank/dps, but when you CAN do it you SHOULD do it.

Divine seal is not an "Oh shit" button especially in dungeons that I far outgear, I'll use it on cooldown because its efficient, not because I "need" it. Its got a 1 minute cooldown ffs, USE IT. Obviously on a HM primal fight you save it for the right time but that's not what we are talking about..

I don't understand? Neither do you! Stop compairing a barrier spell with a healing spell! It's not supposed to heal people, it's supposed to slow down the enemy's damage output. Just like protect (also a barrier spell). Cure may heal close to 18% of someones HP (if you're overgeared), but if a mob of three or more hit that one target once each, you're almost right back where you started. The key word there is ALMOST. That's where Stoneskin would've been a better choice.

You want a good way to "make time to dps?" There you go. Invest! Spend 1 extra second and gain 3 more. And about the cost? I said it before, it cost the same as Cure II. Do you forsake that spell too? Better yet, how about the Overcure + Cure III combo? Is that not worth the cost as well? Or would you even be able to afford it after spaming Stone II? I got no problems since I try to save MP.
*So you're spending more MP to save it? Great..* Again, Invest! Stoneskin + Cure is less time/MP consuming than Cure + Stone II + Cure. Btw, dosen't Stone II cost more than Cure as well?

And as for Divine Seal.. No one ever said it was a last resort. You're putting words into peoples mouths! I said it was a comeback spell. That could be after any major aoe that won't be a problem to heal normally, but would take too much time to do so. Almost every boss after lvl 35 has one attack like that, and more often than not, once they start, they use it again sometime after one minute has passed. The use you were talking about is durring every encounter. That's where I question your logic. If your healing, without Divine Seal, surpasses the requirement, then why would you use it anyway? That's overkill! And a main reason to why average tanks lose aggro to WHMs.

I'm not nocking on Divine Seal + Regen. I do that too. Only I use the time to strenghen my party's defences and restore MP instead of Stone II spam. Like I said once much earlier, it's a good alternative to dps.

[Merlee]

Since I think you have a point, please explain it for me and for others better I don't understand it as of now.

We are still on farmed content right?

Short summary of what I do:
Tank runs in with stoneskin, I pop divine seal -> wait for initial initial hate gain (most of the time flash), tank gets regen, I'm on the GCD -> time to activate cleric stance, time to DPS

-> if the mobs are not dead by the point regen wears of: toggle cleric stance off, Cure II, regen, toggle cleric stance on -> DPS

-> last mob on the brink of death: stoneskin, toggle cleric stance off, start at top.

Where am I supposed to use stoneskin?

[Zanika]

Since I think you have a point, please explain it for me and for others better I don't understand it as of now.

We are still on farmed content right?

Short summary of what I do:
Tank runs in with stoneskin, I pop divine seal -> wait for initial initial hate gain (most of the time flash), tank gets regen, I'm on the GCD -> time to activate cleric stance, time to DPS

-> if the mobs are not dead by the point regen wears of: toggle cleric stance off, Cure II, regen, toggle cleric stance on -> DPS

-> last mob on the brink of death: stoneskin, toggle cleric stance off, start at top.

Where am I supposed to use stoneskin?

Most tanks oppreate better under lower stress. Divine Seal + Regen at the start could overheal and take aggro back if the tank has lag. Also, while Divine Seal + Regen almost guarentes 100% health when used so early, the same can't be said for a normal Regen. To me, that can actually be misleading, and if noticed, the tank will wonder if the sudden change is somehow his fault.

Instead, renew Stoneskin after it breaks (usually 4-7 hits in mobs and every 4 hits with bosses) and follow up with Regen (if the tanks HP drops to 80%). From there just rinse and repeat.
It may seem like it costs more MP at first, but it'll reduce overhealing, allow more time to do whatever you want, give Regen a head start, and as the mob numbers begin dwindle, you won't have to use either spell as often. And since his health is just going up, instead of bouncing around everywhere (I've tanked under such conditions. It's unsetleing), It'll help reduce the tanks stress level.

There is a catch though. If Stoneskin only lasts 2 hits, the tank may be undergeared and renewing it would be a waste of time and MP. That's when Divine Seal + Regen would be the prefered method.

[Varok899]

I don't understand? Neither do you! Stop compairing a barrier spell with a healing spell! It's not supposed to heal people, it's supposed to slow down the enemy's damage output. Just like protect (also a barrier spell). Cure may heal close to 18% of someones HP (if you're overgeared), but if a mob of three or more hit that one target once each, you're almost right back where you started. The key word there is ALMOST. That's where Stoneskin would've been a better choice.

This doesn't make any sense, HOW is SS a better choice in that situation? It costs more and takes longer to cast to do the job of 1 cure. You still don't get it..

You want a good way to "make time to dps?" There you go. Invest! Spend 1 extra second and gain 3 more. And about the cost? I said it before, it cost the same as Cure II. Do you forsake that spell too? Better yet, how about the Overcure + Cure III combo? Is that not worth the cost as well? Or would you even be able to afford it after spaming Stone II? I got no problems since I try to save MP.
*So you're spending more MP to save it? Great..* Again, Invest! Stoneskin + Cure is less time/MP consuming than Cure + Stone II + Cure. Btw, dosen't Stone II cost more than Cure as well?

Again WHY would I waste time using SS when I can dps and keep him alive just as easy with a Cure or regen tick. Casting SS Is not making time to DPS, it's losing time to DPS

And as for Divine Seal.. No one ever said it was a last resort. You're putting words into peoples mouths! I said it was a comeback spell. That could be after any major aoe that won't be a problem to heal normally, but would take too much time to do so. Almost every boss after lvl 35 has one attack like that, and more often than not, once they start, they use it again sometime after one minute has passed. The use you were talking about is durring every encounter. That's where I question your logic. If your healing, without Divine Seal, surpasses the requirement, then why would you use it anyway? That's overkill! And a main reason to why average tanks lose aggro to WHMs.

And again.. Im talking about TRASH pulls, NOT a boss fight, divine seal is up every trash pull and using it with a regen will keep a semi geared tank healed for a whole trash pack, there is no place for SS in the middle of a trash pull

I'm not nocking on Divine Seal + Regen. I do that too. Only I use the time to strenghen my party's defences and restore MP instead of Stone II spam. Like I said once much earlier, it's a good alternative to dps.

I think Im done with you, just continue being average, casting SS and making your runs last longer, you obviously don't see how to be efficient.

[Zanika]

I think Im done with you, just continue being average, casting SS and making your runs last longer, you obviously don't see how to be efficient.

I look foward to seeing your preformance when the end-game content is released...

*This doesn't make any sense, HOW is SS a better choice in that situation? It costs more and takes longer to cast to do the job of 1 cure. You still don't get it..*
Then take my last sentence, put it before the scenario, and change "That's" for "This is." Stoneskin + Regen would have made a much more solid recovery than Regen + Cure. If you were half the healer you claim to be, you would've figured that out on your own.

*Again WHY would I waste time using SS when I can dps and keep him alive just as easy with a Cure or regen tick. Casting SS Is not making time to DPS, it's losing time to DPS*
How far did you read that before spouting off? Did you even get to the 'Invest' part?

*And again.. Im talking about TRASH pulls, NOT a boss fight, divine seal is up every trash pull and using it with a regen will keep a semi geared tank healed for a whole trash pack, there is no place for SS in the middle of a trash pull*
Since when were bosses the only ones with major aoe's? I only used the boss as an example. And again, you didn't read the full statement before commenting.
Remember the part where I said. "The use you were talking about is durring every encounter. That's where I question your logic. If your healing, without Divine Seal, surpasses the requirement, then why would you use it anyway? That's overkill! And a main reason to why average tanks lose aggro to WHMs."

Also since you chose to comment on this post instead of the one I made after (your selective reading not withstanding), I believe my description was valid even in your eyes. So that's that.

[Whippet]

Bullshit didn't read.

Lol any potent WHM knows that they can Nuke almost all turn 1 (exept Cadeus and you can even nuke him a bit) as WHM or SCH i can nuke almost all turn 2 (even on ADS) and SCH or WHM should nuke the dreadnaught in turn 4

I agree this is not end game yet but there is always a way to expant your capabilities

[Zanika]

Lol any potent WHM knows that they can Nuke almost all turn 1 (exept Cadeus and you can even nuke him a bit) as WHM or SCH i can nuke almost all turn 2 (even on ADS) and SCH or WHM should nuke the dreadnaught in turn 4

I agree this is not end game yet but there is always a way to expant your capabilities

You didn't read, so your argument is invalid. But just for amusement, what does this have to do with my post anyway?

[Varok899]

A bunch of nonsense

Lol ya im done with you. Ive been praised many times for my healing/dps capabilities, I know exactly what Im doing. And Ive completed all of endgame except turn 5 so ya...

Everything I say is literally going right over your little head and you refuse to see my logic. SS + Cure is never more efficient than regen + cure + dps, you don't know what you're talking about Zanika and it's as simple as that. But hey, keep using SS and being average, I apparently can't do anything to change your mind on it.

I look forward to your next BS post where you try to convince me SS is worth using on trash pulls in a dungeon. Please keep going, its amusing me now.

Whippet seems to be the only person with a clue in the last few pages of this thread, thankful for that. At least you're not all Derps.