Suggestion: Restrict Leves to "Self-Made" HQ Items.

[CianaIezuborn]

No, I think it is probably mostly Gil Buyers who are buying alot of the HQ items, using them for Triple Turn Ins, maxing Crafts in 1 week then turning around and making millions off of new gil buyers and the cycle repeats untill the whole worlds economy is in ruins.

I'll play this game!

I think that most Gil Sellers are from South Korea and they probably launder that money to North Korea who then send that money to Al Qaeda who are then going to blow up orphans in Spain. WHY ARE YOU KILLING THE CHILDREN WITH HQ LEVE TURN INS?

[Laryndra]

Im not a gilbuyer and i used this to level my crafts. It's my prerogative where i spend my profits not yours. If i wanna use them to level a job faster I will. My time is valuable.

[realmreborn]

Op i bet your one of those selfish kids who cap their crafting with using others made HQ and want others to suffer and level slower

[Yukio]

Why does it matter how others level their crafts? That's like saying the game shouldn't give you credit for killing bosses unless you are alive at the end of the fight. Actually that would be a great idea - in order to get your relic you must be alive when Titan dies. /endsarcasm

[PandaPause]

Guy levels crafting. Wants to restrict crafters from making money off of certain things they craft. Makes perfect sense.

I thought the same exact thing. If people want to be lazy and miss out on the exp of crafting their own HQ items why not take advantage and make money from it.

[Davorok]

Op i bet your one of those selfish kids who cap their crafting with using others made HQ and want others to suffer and level slower

No, I am not a "kid". I have not capped any Craft yet. I just want people to have to actually do the work and put in the time to level crafts.

Im not a gilbuyer and i used this to level my crafts. It's my prerogative where i spend my profits not yours. If i wanna use them to level a job faster I will. My time is valuable.

I believe it is an exploit that encourages gil buying and I am against buying levels in general. Even rich players should have to do the hard work.

... If people want to be lazy and miss out on the exp of crafting their own HQ items why not take advantage and make money from it.

Except that you may very likely be selling to gil buyers which is not a good thing. I guess everyone wants to get rid of RMT activity except when it affects there own profits.

Why does it matter how others level their crafts? /endsarcasm

It matters if it is promoting Gil Buying which I believe it does. I admit I have no evidence and all of this is pure speculation on my part but I am 99.9% certain this is being done.
Also, I just don't like "Buying Levels" even if the gil is legit.

If SE wants Crafting to be this way then I'll live with it. I just think it is an exploit that encourages Gil Buying/Selling.

[PandaPause]

Except that you may very likely be selling to gil buyers which is not a good thing. I guess everyone wants to get rid of RMT activity except when it affects there own profits.

Your logic is flawed. Your chances of selling ANY item to a gil buyer/seller will exist no matter what. This does not only apply to leve items. There is also no way of knowing who your buyer is. So should I stop selling on the MB all together?

I have a capped LTW. I plan to use my profits to buy leve items for CUL leves since I obsoletely loath leveling that class. I am sure I am not the only crafter that has done this.

[CianaIezuborn]

You're an idiot. Now I'm going to tell you why you're an idiot.

No, I am not a "kid". I have not capped any Craft yet. I just want people to have to actually do the work and put in the time to level crafts.

Ok, you want this restriction so that people have to actually do the work. You have a very narrow definition of work, you're defining "the work" as the final combination of the components into the HQ product. However as you don't have a problem with people buying HQ sub components, I'm assuming you don't consider that to be "the work". This would also preclude gathering components and gearing your crafting class, there seems to be an implication that that is also not "the work".

Also anyone that gets offended at being referred to as "kid" is a kid. There's gotta be like a pie chart to how offensive it increases until you hit your mid to late 20s, realize you were a kid and then offensiveness drops to zero.

I believe it is an exploit that encourages gil buying and I am against buying levels in general. Even rich players should have to do the hard work.

Here's where you throw in your WMD argument, where you try to label people that don't agree with you as gil buying sympathizers who are letting the terrorists win. I'll come back to the "Even rich players should have to do the hard work." comment in a bit.

Except that you may very likely be selling to gil buyers which is not a good thing. I guess everyone wants to get rid of RMT activity except when it affects there own profits.

If you're that concerned with accidentally selling to gil buyers, then you better completely refrain from selling anything on the market board and start doing credit checks in person. Also more gil buying sympathizer bullshit here, trying to shame people into agreeing with you.

It matters if it is promoting Gil Buying which I believe it does. I admit I have no evidence and all of this is pure speculation on my part but I am 99.9% certain this is being done.

More gil buying sympathizer bullshit here, and complete admission by you that your argument is invalid. I love the 99.9% certainty that something has happened at least once at sometime somewhere by someone. I'm 99.9% certain that at one point in history, someone bought a candy bar with drug money. I'm also 99.9% sure that taking Babe Ruth's off the shelf isn't going to win us the war on drugs.

Also, I just don't like "Buying Levels" even if the gil is legit.

This is really all you needed to say, and it's your opinion and I would have respected it if you had just kept at this. But then you brought in your gil buying sympathizer bullying tactics trying to shame people into agreeing with you, which made me realize how much of a moron you are irl.

Back to the earlier comment though, let's make sure you understand how money works in a game and in real life.

Even rich players should have to do the hard work.

You see, back in the old days, people used to have to barter services between one another in order to make best use of their respective specialties. This worked some of the time, however it was inefficient especially when dealing with services that weren't exactly equivalent to one another. To solve this, people invented a way to measure how much work was worth and then represent that worth with tokens. They called this "money".

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/money

1mon·ey noun, often attributive \ˈmə-nē\
: something (such as coins or bills) used as a way to pay for goods and services and to pay people for their work

The name for "money" in FF14 is "gil". You see, when someone spends a lot of "gil" on HQ trade stuffs he's cashing in "the work" that he/she already did to make that "gil" in the first place. This flow of "gil" for services over all is what we call the "economy".

So you may think that fat cat buying up 9 HQ tradeskill goods to turn in is a lazy scoundrel, but they already did the work to make that gil previously and if you can't spend your gil, well then what's the point of being a fat cat?

If you have to do "the work" for the HQ combine, then hell you should have to do "the work" for the HQ components. Buying gathered stuff? FAT CAT! You should do "the work" gathering like the honest man. Purchased crafting gear? GIL BUYER~ Real amurcans craft their own hammers! Gil is for teleporting and repair bills, ya hear?

No. I reject your idiocy, award you 0 points, and may god have mercy on your soul.

Kid!

[Davorok]

I;m going to ignore the personal attacks and insults and attempt to respond, even though it is against my better judgement and why I normally don't get embroiled in these Forum Flame Wars but here goes anyway..just this once ;>)

You have a very narrow definition of work, you're defining "the work" as the final combination of the components into the HQ product. However as you don't have a problem with people buying HQ sub components, I'm assuming you don't consider that to be "the work". This would also preclude gathering components and gearing your crafting class, there seems to be an implication that that is also not "the work".

Yes I do have a very narrow definition of "the work": If the Leve-Giver asks you to make/gather a particular item, you should have to make/gather that item if you want to turn in an HQ version. It is that simple.

If you're that concerned with accidentally selling to gil buyers, then you better completely refrain from selling anything on the market board...

My concern is with there being so much RMT activity in the game currently which has already adversely affected many legit crafters who accidentally sold items to Gil Buyers and had their gil confiscated. I am not trying to punish legit players. I think this would help every crafter in the long run.

...you try to label people that don't agree with you as gil buying sympathizers...
...Also more gil buying sympathizer bullshit here, trying to shame people into agreeing with you.
...More gil buying sympathizer bullshit here... then you brought in your gil buying sympathizer bullying tactics trying to shame people into agreeing with you, which made me realize how much of a moron you are irl.

Why is trying to think of ways to limit RMT activity bullshit bullying? Simply banning Gil Sellers is not the solution. SE needs to figure out how to discourage Gil Buying which I think the HQ Turn-In's is part of the problem. If I am wrong, then I am wrong and life goes on but if you don't think RMT is currently a problem in this game then God help us all.

If you have to do "the work" for the HQ combine, then hell you should have to do "the work" for the HQ components. Buying gathered stuff? FAT CAT! You should do "the work" gathering like the honest man. Purchased crafting gear? GIL BUYER~ Real amurcans craft their own hammers! Gil is for teleporting and repair bills, ya hear?

Trying to take my argument to a ridiculous extreme in order to disprove it's validity is very weak as is hurling insults. You obviously disagree with me and that is fine. I don't think you are stupid, a "gil-buying sympathizer" or a Gil Buyer yourself. We simply disagree.

You want Craft Leveling to be easy and be able to "buy levels" and I think it should be a little harder to level and exclude HQ's from "Buying Levels".

It really is just that simple.

[CianaIezuborn]

I;m going to ignore the personal attacks and insults and attempt to respond, even though it is against my better judgement and why I normally don't get embroiled in these Forum Flame Wars but here goes anyway..just this once ;>)

Fair enough, I know I'm an asshole.

My point being is that you're arguing 2 different points:

Point 1: You feel like leveling on HQ turn in leves is to easy, you want it to be harder.

That's definitely your opinion, but I believe that leve allowances already handle this. It takes anywhere between 10-15 triple HQ turn ins to level 5 levels to the next tier of turn ins. Lets split the difference and say 12.

50 levels at 12 leves per 5 levels:
50 /5 = 10 => 10 * 12 = 120 /6 = 20 days for enough leve allowances to max one trade skill to 50

8 * 20 = ~160 days of leve allowances to level all trade crafts by simply buying HQ items and turning them in

It's obviously more efficient already to make your own combines and level crafts concurrently. Like I said earlier, making your own combines is it's own reward. Not to mention the compound effect of leveling all skills at once and being at full HQ crafting gear while doing so.

Taking options away from legitimate folks that want to spend some cash/leves to get over a hump in crafting leveling adds no value to the game, only removes value. A comparison is making folks leveling a 2nd DoW class use only gear received from their class quests and restricting them from buying HQ armor/weapons.

There's already a system in place that restricts people from buying their way to 50 with leve quests more than once every 20 days. Adding additional restrictions simply removes options for players, and doesn't effect players that leveled before the system was in place.

In summary:

HQing yourself is it's own reward, and people that make their own trade skill goods will ALWAYS max faster than buyers do to leve allowance restraints.

Point 2: RMT is bad

The number one rule with dealing with RMT bots/sellers is this: Any change that negatively effects legitimate players to target RMT bots/sellers is more destructive to the game than the RMT bots/sellers.

What do I mean by this? RMT bots are not here to enjoy the game, they are here to make money. They are also not playing the game, they are automated machines. I'm probably best served by creating an example.

Lets say they added a 5% chance on a harvesting node that a debuff called exhaustion triggers. You gain a new ability that you need to click BEFORE harvesting another item or you're stunned for 10 seconds. Pretty simple right?

Let's say a legitimate player messed up and didn't see the debuff. They get stunned for 10 seconds, get pissed off, and their enjoyment of the game is greatly reduced.

Now the bot gets stunned by the debuff. It's a construct of if/thens. It doesn't get frustrated or pissed off, it just moves along and you've effectively reduced it's efficiency by 5%. Worst case, someone manages to tap in to your event flags on your application, reprograms the bot, and now the bot with it's 1ns reaction time actually becomes more efficient than the legitimate player.

So what are you supposed to do? You ADD value for participation. Instead of a debuff that stuns you for 10 seconds, you add a buff that if properly responded to triples your next harvest. If the player hits it, their enjoyment is increased. If they miss due to a mistake, their enjoyment is decreased but LESS than if they were stunned for 10 seconds.

Again, if the bot programmer manages to tap into event flags, this still makes the bot more effective but at least now you're at least adding a chance that legitimate players can outperform bots by participating. This is good design.

The only real proven way to handle bots/gil sellers is what big wigs dread:

Hire more customer service.

Bot teleporting outside of town harvesting nodes? CS guy sees, CS guy bans.
6 spammers in town shouting for RMT? CS guy sees, CS guy bans.

But what does banning really do? They say they've banned all these accounts, but you keep seeing more and more bots and more and more RMT going on. Why?

How does money come into the game(before AK/WP gil drops):
1. Non repeatable quests
2. 6 leves per day

RMT bot armies have an advantage on both of these. They can make new accounts and run through quests for the initial gil. They also have an army of alts for pumping money out of leves.

Whats the most reliable way to make money off other players?
Shards.

Who pulls more shards per hour, a level legitimate 50 miner/botanist or a teleporting level 1 harvesting bot?
The bot

And there lies the problem, a botter can be at maximum earning potential 2 hours from rolling a character, so banning a bot literally costs them the cost of an account and 2 hours. And that's assuming the account was purchased and not hacked/phished.

How do we fix this? SE shot themselves in the foot with the design, but the way to fix it is to ADD value to high level gatherers. When a legitimate 50 miner is 10-20 times as efficient as a level 1 bot miner, they need 10-20 times the accounts to keep up relative stock. They can either provide these 20 times the accounts OR they can level a bot to 50 to compete.

So now RMT have to spend 100s of hours of set up time to pull maximum throughput for gil generation so when you ban them... you've actually done something.

In summary: RMT solution is to make legitimate players orders of magnitude more productive than bots. Due to the first rule, you can't nerf botting, but increase value to legitimate players. This is what reduces the attractiveness of RMT to legitimate players because now you effectively change the benefit gained from buying currency from 10 dollars for 10 hours of farming to 10 dollars for 1 hour of farming.

ANY reduction in value to legitimate players is unacceptable as an RMT solution, as it is more destructive to the overall fun of the game than it is to the curbing of RMT business.

Finally, lets talk about the removal of RMT gil that legitimate sellers recieved from market board transactions

I feel for the folks this happened to, and whoever made the decision to do this on SE's staff to counteract RMT should be fired on the spot.

Let's say that 25% of the gil in the economy was found to be "tainted" by RMT, and all of that gil was removed regardless of if you were a GIL buyer, RMT bot, or legitimate seller. What did this accomplish?

1. Pissed off all legitimate players effected by an insane margin.
2. Pissed off customers that purchased GIL for whatever reason to a lesser margin.
3. Depleted some portion of the RMT reserves of GIL for sale.
4. Increased PRICES that RMT can charge by 33%

RMT prices are based purely on supply and demand. They did nothing to cut off RMT supply, but they multiplied the demand. Someone at an RMT company was drinking fucking crystal that day, laughing his ass off.