[Discussion] The Pugilist of the Future!

[Vackashken]

I'd like to see some parse info from people saying Pug does king damage or close.

[Akuun]

I'd like to see some parse info from people saying Pug does king damage or close.

Ya same here, I think the confusion comes from the pugilist ripping hate off of everything else with flurry.

Regardless of the damage, pugilist generates hate through punches, and way to much imho.
It's sad that the only defensive moves I use to tank NMs are featherfoot ii and accomplice (i only use this to rip hate from the current tank (makes sure they don't take it back right away))
Flurries and buffs with w/e weaponskill and i'll get hate every time, even with out of sight (if i don't seriously pace myself)

[RegaDosei]

All very valid points about Pugilist. Essentially, turning PGL in to another main DD wouldn't be an effective balance. We can all agree that ARC and LNC shine when it comes to damage. Let those classes keep their glory. One thing that is important to understand is that the devs are revamping the battle system. One of their primary goals is to fix the hate system. As a 49 PUG I can say that throughout my time playing this job i have been more than an effective tank in several situations. If played right, PUG can stay alive for a very long time and hold hate just the same. I don't think there should be any argument that PUG isn't second in line with GLD when it comes to tanking. However this doesn't go for "end game" NM's. I think the question we should ask ourselves is that,

-After the enmity revamp along with battle components, do we want to see GLD as the only reliable tank?

-After we see changes in stat/gear system (i forget what they're calling it) would we want to see a tank that takes advantage of evasion?

I would like to see PGL become an even more effective tank as the game progresses throughout it's changes. Why take a great class that has potential and scrap it for Ninja?

[Peregrine]

I'd like to see some parse info from people saying Pug does king damage or close.

It doesn't. In a party of 8 on your NMs this is what the parses almost always show:

Pug-18% of damage
MRD-18% of damage
LNC-20% of damge
THM/CON-22% of damage
ARC-25% of damage
GLA-1% of damage
Healer-1% of damage

It's actually remarkably reproduceable, even if the archer dies which is really disappointing.

Note that this isn't a specific party as it doesn't add to 100%. This is just what, on average, each damaging role provides to a total party when they're in a typical balanced party.

I see pugilists and marauders in the same boat--first up on the chopping block of "no point in inviting one" if content gets difficult. They won't be invited to tank, and they won't be invited to DD. Pugs, like Marauders, are great at generic content but not great where the players emphasize, which is endgame and big fights.

I would like to see pugs become the kings of slow and steady DPS like they almost were in XI. None of their "balance ability points" should be wasted on the silly notion that they can tank. No one cares, because that's what gladiators are for.