Order of the Blue Garter Twintania Down (No Exploits)

[Laryndra]

Using this "bug" causing her scripts to temporarily fail or bug is clearly exploiting this bug, there is no way to sugar coat that. What raid boss in the entire history of MMO's tries to attack an invincible target....? That's right, none. Sure they killed it, but the title of no exploits is simply not true. Like the above post, the tank logging out like before is no different from this, except her script will resume when the tank comes out of conflag rather than just being offline the entire fight. This thread is a bunch of lol. Whether or not the community actually accepts this as a legit kill remains to be seen(imo it isn't), if this were the WoW community, knowingly using exploits like this would be an assured ban like it's been done many times in the past.

All of this butthurt crying exploit.. For all you know its intended to work that way for the reason of providing a break to the healer. It is risk/reward because if you cant kill the conflag the main tank drops. How is that hard to understand? Just because there is no damage going out doesn't mean there isn't the potential for a battle-ending event to happen, which is the whole purpose of bosses dealing damage in the first place. There are alot of mechanics SE employs in their raids in XI which aren't conventional like this and sure, you don't have to use them.. but it makes the fight much harder. Go back to wow if you want your easy mode raids.

Just to illustrate my point in XI many raid level bosses have certain weaknesses which stun them for up to 10 seconds or even longer if you can manage to chain them. NO ONE is taking damage when this happens and the boss still is.

[CrashQQ]

snip

The fact that you say WoW has "easy mode raids" sort of invalidates anything you say.

But yea, What's with all the hate? I don't think what they did was an exploit in any way.

[Laryndra]

The fact that you say WoW has "easy mode raids" sort of invalidates anything you say.

Although I find the kill extremely legitimate and have no problem with what they did.

Really? You think WoW has hard raids? Go look at the progression % rates and compare it to XIV or XI and get back to me. rofl. WoW is a joke kid.

Seige of Ogrimmar ["Hard Mode"] (Newest raid instance) -- Complete dungeon released October 22 (It was released in phases). Completed by 19 guilds as of october 28.
Binding Coil of Bahamut - Released with XIV Release. Completed by 1 group of 8 people legitimately (On a legacy server which had a significant gear/level advantage to non-legacy).

[Horg]

Really? You think WoW has hard raids? Go look at the progression % rates and compare it to XIV or XI and get back to me. rofl. WoW is a joke kid.

WoW did have hard raids...excluding a few tiers of content, WOTLK Naxx for example (not sure about Pandaland and end Cata)...and you can't compare WoW to other MMOs on a progression % basis considering how many more subscribers WoW has/had compared to the other MMOs.

WoW raids from Vanilla through BC were insanely fun and challenging...but didn't require you to zerg a boss for 18 hours straight like a MMO zombie with no life.

[MrEzekial]

WoW did have hard raids...excluding a few tiers of content, WOTLK Naxx for example (not sure about Pandaland and end Cata)...and you can't compare WoW to other MMOs on a progression % basis considering how many more subscribers WoW has/had compared to the other MMOs.

WoW raids from Vanilla through BC were insanely fun and challenging...but didn't require you to zerg a boss for 18 hours straight like a MMO zombie with no life.

Yeah, WoW had raids that were just straight up broken as well (AQ40)

[glim]

Really? You think WoW has hard raids? Go look at the progression % rates and compare it to XIV or XI and get back to me. rofl. WoW is a joke kid.

Seige of Ogrimmar ["Hard Mode"] (Newest raid instance) -- Complete dungeon released October 22 (It was released in phases). Completed by 19 guilds as of october 28.
Binding Coil of Bahamut - Released with XIV Release. Completed by 1 group of 8 people legitimately (On a legacy server which had a significant gear/level advantage to non-legacy).

wat

if you've done heroic raiding in WoW, you would know coil is a joke when compared to heroic raiding (normal raiding is probably harder),also, you're comparing game release final boss vs current WoW final game boss. you know how long it took when WoW was released to kill ragnaros? WoW was released Nov 23 2004, world first ragnaros kill was april 25 2005.

granted,heroic garrosh may not be the most difficult WoW boss, but if I'm progressing on twintania right now (mind you, this ain't even an fc progression, just a random unkown LS that raids once a week) and I haven't even progressed 60% of the current heroic WoW content right now(4x a week, 3-4 hours each day), I'm sure as hell garrosh is a lot harder than twintania.

edit/add: ALSO, how many weeks has twintania been down for fixes? I'm quite sure BG would have gotten the kill earlier if all these downtime weren't there.

[verily]

(On a legacy server which had a significant gear/level advantage to non-legacy).

Had. Past-tense. You're on a non-legacy server and you have more useful Allagan drops than half of our group. You forget that you can't choose what drops in Coil and with poor luck (like we've had at times) you end up getting a lot of doubles or things you can't even put to use in your progression group, so it's effectively useless. Yes, you can argue non-legacy can get drops they don't even have the jobs to use- but just being legacy doesn't mean you use every single job available. We get tons of dragoon stuff and we never use dragoon. We get tons of BLM stuff and we only really use the extra stuff on Turn 4. We get relatively little tank loot and even less healer loot. There are quite a few non-legacy FCs with higher average party ilevels than our group has, with better geared tanks and better geared DPS. The gear advantage was effectively gone within a week of our Turn 4 kill (which many of us did in full darklight, and outside of relic shield +1 which doesn't help your DPS at all- none of us had relic+1 weapons at the time. same as non-legacy), and non-legacy have had more than 2 full weeks during Turn 5 bug fixes to catch up even more.

There's no need to continue making excuses for non-legacy. Legacy still enjoys the perks of (potentially) having a few more level 50 jobs and/or a bit more gil, but any differences in gear at this point boil down to poor luck on Coil drops or laziness farming mythology. Simple as that.

/nitpicking

[Horg]

All of this butthurt crying exploit.. For all you know its intended to work that way for the reason of providing a break to the healer. It is risk/reward because if you cant kill the conflag the main tank drops. How is that hard to understand? Just because there is no damage going out doesn't mean there isn't the potential for a battle-ending event to happen, which is the whole purpose of bosses dealing damage in the first place.

It's a very fine line, I think that the boss should definitely go to the next on the threat list whenever the tank is in conflag and the fireball should definitely still get used by twin while the target is in conflag. I'm not sure what SE was thinking when they designed the AI, essentially stepping into that conflag bugs the boss out while the conflag is active and her targets are inside it. If that was intended then it was pretty poor design. I'd still give them a legit kill, and definitely congratulations, very creative use of the boss mechanics...but it was full of super cheesiness through the first half.

*Edit* Poor boss design and testing isn't BG's fault, if using the conflag that way was not intended, it was not obvious. This kind of stuff happens often with world firsts, if it needs fixing then SE will do it...within the next few years...

[Laryndra]

Snip

You are not negating boss mechanics by stuffing your tank in the conflag.. The mechanic in question is the conflag instantly killing people. Which it still does unless you sleep it (A bug) or kill it. (not a bug). Just because damage is not coming in does not make it an exploit or unintended, in fact its more likely that its intended to be that way since -EVERY- other monster in the game behaves in the same way.

Also: We aren't comparing raids today to raids of old. Pandemonium Warden would make you cry and rage quit the thread. Stick to whats current.

To Onolock: The same developers for battle content for XI Today (Alduin) are the same ones designing content for XIV. If you can't tell the difference between logging out (and PERMANENTLY) bugging the boss, to a temporary and still very deadly mechanic then you're hopeless. Lol.

[Horg]

You are not negating boss mechanics by stuffing your tank in the conflag.. The mechanic in question is the conflag instantly killing people. Which it still does unless you sleep it (A bug) or kill it. (not a bug). Just because damage is not coming in does not make it an exploit or unintended, in fact its more likely that its intended to be that way since -EVERY- other monster in the game behaves in the same way.

The mob attacking yes, though it doesn't seem correct, it is in fact how SE designed the game...poorly. However, by stepping into conflag to completely negate the fireball is completely different, that seems to be very close to exploit since a mechanic is being circumvented through, what is assumed, unintended means.