Ff14 A realm unfinished

[Sidious]

WoW had just as much content, if not less...

Lack of content is not the same as content that is undesireable to you.
WP, AK, CM, Prae, Titan, Garuda, Chimera, Ifrit, Dzemael Darkhold, Aurum Vale, Cape Westwind, Hydra, Coils, crafting, and Grand Company leves can all be consider end game. Because you do not want to do but two of those is not game developer's fault.

WoW had far more relevant content on release, including leveling content. And PvP.

Deluded fantasies about what constitutes "content" aside, the fact is, at endgame, FFXIV has WP, AK, and coil. Vanilla had BRD, UBRS, LBRS, UD Strath, Living Strath, Scholomance, Molten Core, and Onyxia-- ALL on release.

[Swishytail]

WoW had far more relevant content on release, including leveling content. And PvP.

Deluded fantasies about what constitutes "content" aside, the fact is, at endgame, FFXIV has WP, AK, and coil. Vanilla had BRD, UBRS, LBRS, UD Strath, Living Strath, Scholomance, Molten Core, and Onyxia-- ALL on release.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...oW-Launch-With

"There were no BG's and 2 raids at launch. 5 raids if you count Scholomance, UBRS, and Strat (which I don't - they were too easy to be considered raids imo)."

If you are so WoW happy, go back. You can LFR all day long and get nothing but gold. Enjoy.
And before you attempt to counter with "You prolly didn't even play lolz" that is incorrect. I
played for about 7 years on-and-off. Including Mists of Pandaria.

[Sidious]

"There were no BG's and 2 raids at launch. 5 raids if you count Scholomance, UBRS, and Strat (which I don't - they were too easy to be considered raids imo)."

If you are so WoW happy, go back. You can LFR all day long and get nothing but gold. Enjoy.

It had everything that I just said it had.

Two 40-man raids: Molten Core and Onyxia.
Six dungeons: Scholomance, UBRS, LBRS, Living Strath, UD Strath, and, if you're going to count WP as endgame for FFXIV, then you have to count BRD for WoW.
And PvP.

I hate new WoW. You know, the version of WoW that YoshiP tried to copy.

[Reslin]

It had everything that I just said it had.

Two 40-man raids: Molten Core and Onyxia.
Six dungeons: Scholomance, UBRS, LBRS, Living Strath, UD Strath, and, if you're going to count WP as endgame for FFXIV, then you have to count BRD for WoW.
And PvP.

No, if you count scholo and them you have to count the other dungeons in 14. Sorry, FF14 has more than vanilla wow.

You know there's some people who hated vanilla wow because they found it was far more casual than games such as like the original everquest? You might hate the new wow but the current wow was far more of a success than vanilla. Vanilla wow was casual as all hell compared to EQ.

In fact until I embraced and accepted modern mmos. I was the same way. Leveling in WoW was cake in comparison. Even a complete numbskull could level with little difficulty. No exp loss upon death, no corpse retrieval, it was simple. Raids in WoW? 0 Risk. You can die and what happens? Repair bill? entire guilds lost their corpses by being camped by "Raid level" npc's that were KOS to you. WoW you could try again and again with little to no risk of failure. For every reason you hate "the new wow" some people hated vanilla wow.

P.S. WoW did it's own copying in it's time too. Namely DAOC and EQ. WoW took things from multiple sources just as every mmo attempts to do. Heck, even their artistic style resembles a lot like DAOC in ways.

[Sidious]

No, if you count scholo and them you have to count the other dungeons in 14. Sorry, FF14 has more than vanilla wow.

You're delusional. A bunch of 1-times fights and story dungeons do not constitute endgame content. And the Primals? I've beaten Ifrit maybe 4 times. I've beaten Garuda twice. Titan once. Why? Because that's all you need.

And yet, here you are. Still. If you are so fed up with it, why are you playing?

Because I paid for 3 months of game time before I realized how shallow the game is.

[Reslin]

You're delusional. A bunch of 1-times fights and story dungeons do not constitute endgame content. And the Primals? I've beaten Ifrit maybe 4 times. I've beaten Garuda twice. Titan once. Why? Because that's all you need.



Because I paid for 3 months of game time before I realized how shallow the game is.

Delusional? No. It's called variety. Until you have your DL gear on the classes you want there's options and what you can run rather than being stuck to a single dungeon. They definitely do count for monotony sake. Again, if you look at wow they could have easily done the same thing for dungeon gear as AK gear. Confined it to a single instance. Instead, it's broken up into multiple dungeons just to give you a reason to run them. You run them a few times, get your dungeon gear, and then they're useless. Much like you claim for Garuda/Titan/Ifrit. Here's the thing though, luck may vary. For my Garuda weapon I killed Garuda 63 times. To be as geared as I could be against Titan. Was it necessary? Not really, but why not, right? Sorry, there's still more options than vanilla wow. Still more dungeons and more fights. The content you say is irrelevant for "Reasons" make wow's content just as irrelevant for the same reasons.

Sorry again I don't see your point. I have played over 25 mmos. I've seen my share of mmos fail. I've also seen mmo's succeed. To you what is success? Beating WoW's numbers? That isn't the only success. No mmo has released with this much content in a long long time. The fact that the only real comparable game IS WoW speaks volumes. You keep saying "This game is going the same path as other mmo's even though none of them had this much content!" makes me shake my head.

[Sidious]

snip

I didn't fight Garuda 63 times because I killed Titan the next day and got my relic weapon. Which was an unrewarding experience in and of itself. In a matter of 2 days I had the best weapon in the game (and yes, I could have +1'd it that same day), and there's nothing worth my while coming for months in terms of weaponry. It was an easy, shallow, and overly casual experience.

My definition of success is "it's worth paying money every month for". The shallow, 1-time content you seem so proud of is not enough to warrant a subscription, and the content that the non-delusional people accept as "endgame" isn't worth it either. So unless you want ARR to become a ghost town, I suggest you stop white knighting and start holding SE to a higher standard.

Vanilla WoW was worth it.
TBC was worth it.
FFXI was worth it.
FFXIV 1.0 was not.
ARR is not.

[Swishytail]

It had everything that I just said it had.

Two 40-man raids: Molten Core and Onyxia.
Six dungeons: Scholomance, UBRS, LBRS, Living Strath, UD Strath, and, if you're going to count WP as endgame for FFXIV, then you have to count BRD for WoW.
And PvP.

I hate new WoW. You know, the version of WoW that YoshiP tried to copy.

And yet, here you are. Still. If you are so fed up with it, why are you playing?

WoW Raids 2/1
WoW Dungeons 6/4 (subjective barring how you classify primals)
FFXIV Single Boss Dungeons 3/0 (^See above)

You make it sound like WoW had 50x more content, which it didn't. Also, don't even try to say that the beginning dungeons were super hard. They weren't.

Also for all the people complaining about launch issues, and think WoW's was better:

http://www.tentonhammer.com/wow/edit...-launch-of-wow

[Reslin]

And yet, here you are. Still. If you are so fed up with it, why are you playing?

WoW Raids 2/1
WoW Dungeons 6/4 (subjective barring how you classify primals)
FFXIV Single Boss Dungeons 3/0 (^See above)

You make it sound like WoW had 50x more content, which it didn't. Also, don't even try to say that the beginning dungeons were super hard. They weren't.

Not to mention all those dungeons were run because different pieces of your dungeon gear were spread out through them. It'd be like if there were 6 more dungeons in FF14 that all drop AK gear. Except the legs/boots drop in AK. The gloves dropped somewhere else. Etc. Let's also not forget that all of those bosses were pretty much tank and spank. Heck, most of MC was like that too.

[Reslin]

WoW had far more relevant content on release, including leveling content. And PvP.

Deluded fantasies about what constitutes "content" aside, the fact is, at endgame, FFXIV has WP, AK, and coil. Vanilla had BRD, UBRS, LBRS, UD Strath, Living Strath, Scholomance, Molten Core, and Onyxia-- ALL on release.

You know most of those dungeons in the end just gave you one set of gear? Your dungeon set? Also if you count brd ubrs etc. You must count CM, Praetorium, AK, WP, ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Chimera, Hydra, and Coils. ALL on release.

Note that end game in wow you only had two real gear options. Dungeon set and Tier 1. There were a few "better" stat drops in Onyxia but not completely. We have AK gear, Darklight, Mythology, and coil gear. If you point to the crafting in WoW I'll point out crafted gear wasn't as good as dungeon gear such as shadowcraft. FFXIV has better crafting considering Vanya is equivalent to DL. Better in many ways.

Let's not forget how many people were excluded in Vanilla WoW content considering you needed 40 people who can all get on at the same time and be competent enough in order to even have a decent shot at running it. Most people couldn't get that many people together and were excluded. From a casual point of view FF14 would be the far superior game as there's no gear that's completely inaccessible to anyone. Even people without guilds.

Note that even WoW moved past how things worked in vanilla wow.