Alright SE, how about a trade.

[Johnist]

You Must Not Have Heard Of Rosa From FF4. Shes Skilled In Archery and Healing.

She also had Pray command which had a chance of recovering HP & MP to the entire party.

[Charmy]

I honestly wish they would focus more on the support side of Bards rather than the DPS. Nerf away for all I care, I want more useful songs... D:

[ReplicaX]

I honestly wish they would focus more on the support side of Bards rather than the DPS. Nerf away for all I care, I want more useful songs... D:

At this point we can only hope with the first level cap increase. Then we get a good song in which a small percentage of the community feels left out again and complains. Thus Bard gets nerfed on the support side as well. Welcome to the cycle.

[Dean86]

I'm disappointing bard isnt a true support class. I'm also surprised it isnt a magic class that uses instruments. It uses a bow? lol Also a waist of a good archer job like the bard but without the songs

[Johnist]

I could see Archer branching out into a TRUE DPS Role of Ranger and Bard getting a more support role... The Bard LIMIT BREAK is a throwback to 1.0 when it was indeed considered a Healing Class and had Conjurer as the required Subclass. Of course, with it being Pugilist as Secondary, I can see the reverse (Pugilist 30 + Archer 15) branching off into a Dancer Job (subweapon Fan), with Debilitating Dances... then a True Advanced Class unlocking from getting both Dancer and Bard to 50: Performer (Performer would have things like Gil Toss (AoE), Bribe (Enmity Decrease, Cross Class to Mage Roles), Fine (Enmity Boost + Gil up, Cross Class to TANK Roles), Morph, and Mimic).

[Eightbit]

First, if a dps job for the archer class is planned there will probably be some relatively solid nerfing on the mobility aspect of archer I'd assume. (Yes I'm saying archer is what will get adjusted because technically they are where most of the offensive skills come from) Face it the main issue of the class and job is how small the opportunity costs are for attacking with cast times and movement. Second, the bard nerfing might just be a change in cross class skills. I don't really play bard (I know that is opening me up to flames for just saying that) but I have to imagine that some of the cross class abilities really do add in some good damage potential.

[Findel]

*snip* but I have to imagine that some of the cross class abilities really do add in some good damage potential.

The only cross skills I use consistently are Internal Release, Blood for Blood, and Invigorate. (Occasionally Second Wind.) But if you take any one of these away it would A) leave nothing useful to cross class on Bard, and B) Likely not make a massive difference. Yoshi said specifically, "We currently feel that the bards are a little too strong due to the amount of damage they can do without being impacted that much from the fight."

In other words: they can continue to DPS while moving and dodging mobs. So any sort of nerf is either going to be a boost to other DD jobs damage OR a small "cast time" to bard moves so we have to sit still for a second.

[Rage89]

sorry cant help but laugh at all the people complaining about bard dps when they obviously havnt seen endgame blm.drg.mnk dps (sure thy have to move but even when moving esp in blm case they pump out at least twice what the bard does). if they indeed do add cast time to bard abilities then they will need to up the damage accordingly to be on par with summoners/blm afterall they do a ton more dmg when not having to move.

[JayCommon]

Personally, I feel Bard would be just fine if the songs were utilized more frequently. The 20% damage reduction would level us out vs other DPS when using Army's Paeon and Mage's Ballad, but they're simply not used often enough.

But, that's the problem. Currently there isn't a need to utilize those songs. Most parties in full end-game gear don't last in battles long enough to need any of the Bard's buffs. I haven't ran Coil yet (waiting for FC) but as far as AK,CM,WP and the HM primal fights go, if the team is capable they never need any of the Bard's songs. In fact, I have been yelled at by healers with half HP for using Ballad. "I don't need MP just DPS and stop song". Fine, but when you die and get raised I won't song either and you can just die again.

I picked Bard to be support, and there really hasn't been much for me to support. The only time I have ever used Foe Requiem, was when I was in a party with another Bard and it's because he asked me too. I use Army Paeon ONLY when I'm helping speed run something with AOE moves. I haven't needed to use Mage Ballad in a long time, except sparingly when we DF a healer that has low gear in AK or something.

When I was in AF running CM and AK with my FC and we were ALL undergeared, my songs were used more often. But once you get about to the halfway DL mark, they stop being needed.

I might be able to agree with the fact that our damage while moving is "too high", or maybe that we should suffer an accuracy debuff, but I disagree with us needing a cast time. This is a fantasy game, and in any movie you watch archers move around while nocking arrows into their bow's all the time. If this was meant to be real life, then I will just go learn how to shoot a bow, screw the game. What SE really needs to do is give us a wider range of songs that have a bigger impact than the current ones do, or give us content where we actually need to use them.

I would love to support a group with my melodic voice. I would also like to find a group that genuinely needs it, rather than bitch me out because I'm nerfing my own DPS by trying to help people that don't need it

[Findel]

sorry cant help but laugh at all the people complaining about bard dps when they obviously havnt seen endgame blm.drg.mnk dps (sure thy have to move but even when moving esp in blm case they pump out at least twice what the bard does). if they indeed do add cast time to bard abilities then they will need to up the damage accordingly to be on par with summoners/blm afterall they do a ton more dmg when not having to move.

I actually agree, I was just stating an opinion based on the fact that incoming changes ARE happening. I do whole heatedly think SE/Yoshi intended for Bards to be using their songs and receive the 20% reduction in damage. Only after reviewing the play style of most, if not all, end-game Bards did they see that this was not happening and felt a change was needed to balance it out.

But, that's the problem. Currently there isn't a need to utilize those songs. Most parties in full end-game gear don't last in battles long enough to need any of the Bard's buffs. I haven't ran Coil yet (waiting for FC) but as far as AK,CM,WP and the HM primal fights go, if the team is capable they never need any of the Bard's songs. In fact, I have been yelled at by healers with half HP for using Ballad. "I don't need MP just DPS and stop song". Fine, but when you die and get raised I won't song either and you can just die again.

*snip*

I would love to support a group with my melodic voice. I would also like to find a group that genuinely needs it, rather than bitch me out because I'm nerfing my own DPS by trying to help people that don't need it

That wasn't exactly the point I was making. Again, Bard IS getting some sort of balancing act happening in the near future for whatever reason. My suggestion/point was that SE/Yoshi should make the songs worth using since they currently are rather useless.

And to your comment about the WHM, I've never had one yell at me for putting my Ballad up. In fact, I get asked for it specifically in certain fights. But being a main healer (scholar and backup whm) I won't EVER tell a Bard to stop the song for more dps. It might make the fights a little longer, but ultimately it makes them go smoother should something happen.