The markets, stalls, price listing and undercutting. (A suggestion)

[TheVedis]

There's nothing shady about their business. There is something shady about your 40% marked-up crap though. About all you're arguing is that you deserve more profit for the same gear...because you made it and that apparently means its worth more than the market says it is.

Unless you're a celebrity that's not going to work.

if people are willing to pay it
let them

if people dont pay the overly inflated prices, then the prices will go down

so do we blame the sellers? or the people who buy it for rediculous prices

its this "i want it now" attitude that lets us sellers get away with it, why not earn the most for what we do?

[Peregrine]

if its not selling the price gets lowered

thats the law of supply and demand

if someones willing to pay it, then it is worth the time
if they arent buying them for those prices, thats when its overpriced

And I'm not going to bother negotiating with you as an iron lance maker because I have better things to do than to keep checking the bazaar to see how you react, hustle, and ball. Your product is just as good used as it is new. It's a midlevel piddlydink piece of gear. It's not worth 170k. It's not worth 130k.

It's a used lance. It's worth whatever I say it is. I don't care what you think yours are worth, and I'm not going to waste my time considering your bazaar sales rates.

130k tonight is worth more than 155k after three price resets five days from now. You're not worth my time to negotiate fair market price with, and I don't care what happens to that market. That's why I undercut you.

Stop whining. Call my bluff and buy my lance, then put it back up for 170k if you think you're right.

You're wrong, which is why you just complain.

This is a yard sale, fellas. You seem to think you run a retail store. Ten dollar toaster? Try a dollar fifty.

[Shai]

if people are willing to pay it
let them

if people dont pay the overly inflated prices, then the prices will go down

so do we blame the sellers? or the people who buy it for rediculous prices

its this "i want it now" attitude that lets us sellers get away with it, why not earn the most for what we do?

Go ahead.

No one is telling you not to do this.

Just don't come crying you got undercut like you don't understand how economics work.

That's all that's been said here really.

[TheVedis]

Go ahead.

No one is telling you not to do this.

Just don't come crying you got undercut like you don't understand how economics work.

That's all that's been said here really.

im not complaining, other people in here are

undercutting is a natural part of every MMO economy

again, supply and demand

if there are 50 lances up for sale, people will undercut alot more trying to get theirs sold vs the 49 others
if theres only 5 for sale, people probly wont be as worried about it

and massively selling something lower like perigrine said doesnt mean his price is right, just means hes giving people a better deal


if people are willing to pay for something, they are willing to pay for it, thats it eh only thing that matters in the economy

you guys are really quick to insult today, perhaps its time for you to go outside and get some fresh air

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

And I'm not going to bother negotiating with you as an iron lance maker because I have better things to do than to keep checking the bazaar to see how you react, hustle, and ball. Your product is just as good used as it is new. It's a midlevel piddlydink piece of gear. It's not worth 170k. It's not worth 130k.

It's a used lance. It's worth whatever I say it is. I don't care what you think yours are worth, and I'm not going to waste my time considering your bazaar sales rates.

130k tonight is worth more than 155k after three price resets five days from now. You're not worth my time to negotiate fair market price with, and I don't care what happens to that market. That's why I undercut you.

Stop whining. Call my bluff and buy my lance, then put it back up for 170k if you think you're right.

You're wrong, which is why you just complain.

While I think the example you give is actually fair in terms of how much you lower the price when you want to rid of items you are no longer using, there is a different issue that really is not in anyone's control. That being the sales person whirlwind people go into when ANYONE undercuts them. Using your example, instead of waiting for your 130k Lance to sell, I've been seeing people pull a, "Oh no you di'eh!" and quickly lower their lances below your price. This will go on till it's not even profitable anymore.

These situations don't have anything to do with supply and demand or items/materials being over priced. It has to do with the proud crafters who take a "If mine won't sell, yours won't either" approach. It's extremely foolish.

You're right, you shouldn't care. At all. Ignorant players with poor market skills shouldn't be on anyone's shoulders. Unless they immediately drop the price by a terribly low 60-70% of what it actually costs. That's really more due to laziness, but if you're reasonable about your pricing when undercutting it should be a non-issue.

[Shai]

im not complaining, other people in here are

undercutting is a natural part of every MMO economy

again, supply and demand

if there are 50 lances up for sale, people will undercut alot more trying to get theirs sold vs the 49 others
if theres only 5 for sale, people probly wont be as worried about it

and massively selling something lower like perigrine said doesnt mean his price is right, just means hes giving people a better deal


if people are willing to pay for something, they are willing to pay for it, thats it eh only thing that matters in the economy

you guys are really quick to insult today, perhaps its time for you to go outside and get some fresh air

I never said you were complaining and I'm not insulting you.

You're bringing up a new question that no one cares about - is it ok to take advantage of buyers who do no market research and just want something now, now, now! Yeah, go for it. Have a blast. Just be aware someone will come along and put up gear for reasonable rates.

This is exactly how this whole thread started - so I was pretty much talking to the original QQers. Not you. Don't take everything so personally. People want to make a profit, take advantage of low supply, or whatever and then are butt hurt when someone else thinks the value of the item should be lower or wants to move their goods faster. Wah.

[TheVedis]

I never said you were complaining and I'm not insulting you.

You're bringing up a new question that no one cares about - is it ok to take advantage of buyers who do no market research and just want something now, now, now! Yeah, go for it. Have a blast. Just be aware someone will come along and put up gear for reasonable rates.

This is exactly how this whole thread started - so I was pretty much talking to the original QQers. Not you. Don't take everything so personally. People want to make a profit, take advantage of low supply, or whatever and then are butt hurt when someone else thinks the value of the item should be lower or wants to move their goods faster. Wah.

i wasnt the one who brung up taking advantage of people with high prices
im just commenting on WHY those prices are high(and thats cuz people are in fact willing to pay them)

i wont lie, i do undercut alot myself though
and i do it on purpose

2 months ago ash longbows went for 250k on besaid, i saw this, saw how easy they are to make(cost me maybe 10-15k a bow)

so i made 50 of them
in the first day i sold 5 of them for 200k each
then the undercutting started, i already made my money back and then some so i didnt care
the price, within a week was down to 50k
by then, all my bows had sold

was this wrong to do? hell no
its supply and demand, when there werent many bows up, they went for alot more then when i flooded the market lol

people need to get used to undercutting in general
its the natural order of all MMO economies until you hit the bottom end

also, leveling recipes will never sell worth a damn so people need to get over trying to profit on those too

[Shai]

While I think the example you give is actually fair in terms of how much you lower the price when you want to rid of items you are no longer using, there is a different issue that really is not in anyone's control. That being the sales person whirlwind people go into when ANYONE undercuts them. Using your example, instead of waiting for your 130k Lance to sell, I've been seeing people pull a, "Oh no you di'eh!" and quickly lower their lances below your price. This will go on till it's not even profitable anymore.

You know, I see what you're saying here and I agree this is an idiotic way to do business.

People seem to take undercutting personally and do ridiculous things to "get ahead" like take a 50% loss and also set a new standard price inadvertently. At this point, though, the smart thing would be to buy the 2-3 offending lances yourself and just resell all 4 of them (including your own) for marginal profit.

The risk is whether you can sell all 4 lances before these same shenanigans pop back up again and you're forced to buy 3 more lances when you have only sold 1. This is why you should just pick and choose your battles wisely. Things that move fast are better to quibble over than things that only sell 1/week or 1/month. If that's the case, I probably wouldn't have bothered listing it to begin with or I'd list it cheap to get rid of it (like the original offender).

[Peregrine]

While I think the example you give is actually fair in terms of how much you lower the price when you want to rid of items you are no longer using, there is a different issue that really is not in anyone's control. That being the sales person whirlwind people go into when ANYONE undercuts them. Using your example, instead of waiting for your 130k Lance to sell, I've been seeing people pull a, "Oh no you di'eh!" and quickly lower their lances below your price. This will go on till it's not even profitable anymore.

These situations don't have anything to do with supply and demand or items/materials being over priced. It has to do with the proud crafters who take a "If mine won't sell, yours won't either" approach. It's extremely foolish.

You're right, you shouldn't care. At all. Ignorant players with poor market skills shouldn't be on anyone's shoulders. Unless they immediately drop the price by a terribly low 60-70% of what it actually costs. That's really more due to laziness, but if you're reasonable about your pricing when undercutting it should be a non-issue.

Undercutters are the divine wind of the market long overdue for a correction. They're the bursting of the bubble and the end of decadent greed. They're the recession that such a population could have avoided if they'd have lived responsibly and within their means. They're the answer to the problem of price flippers, market speculators, middlemen, and manipulations, monopolies, and markups.

That's why when an undercutter shows up, oh how they rage. They know the gig is up.

I'm not going to lie and say I don't enjoy finding a market that's being manipulated for way too much profit than what it's worth and cutting it down to size. I shoot the cook. It's a service to the server really.

I want lancers to have access to good weapons more than I want gil.

[Shai]

I want lancers to have access to good weapons more than I want gil.

I'm reposting this in the Lancer forum and Wutai forum. Just so you know. ^^