The markets, stalls, price listing and undercutting. (A suggestion)

[Peregrine]

if i saw those prices id put mine up for 169k lol
get the most for it while still being lowest priced, why not

Because 4 lances sitting on the market indicates that the price is too high. Maybe there are two lancers out there who see that lance for 170k and think **** that I'll just level 2 levels with the lance I have and skip it. Maybe @ 130k they'll finally bite. I don't know and I don't care. 130k is the same as 169k to me. I have no interest in playing the lance market for as much as it's worth. It's worth chickenscratch to me.

If you put it up for 169k, xenor's going to put it up for 168k. So I just skip you both and raise you a straight ridiculous number. If you want to play price wars on piddle lances, fine by me. It's not a bluff. My hand just can't be beaten. I'll put it up for 80 the next time. Then 50.

I do. Not. Care. And you can't blame me.

[Peregrine]

I find it sad that so many are adamant about profit. You'd think since a game isn't real life, that people would be at least somewhat less concerned about money and wealth, especially since there really isn't even anything worth buying yet. I also don't see why so many have to view crafter jobs as a "merchant" job. I see it as more of a support or service job myself.

I don't sell items too often, but when I do, I do it to distribute my items to people who need them. Gil is of no concern to me so I have no problem selling a full set of gear for a gil per piece as long as the items get to someone who needs them. I imagine I will continue doing so until there's a Salvation Army donation box set up in the cities.

This is how I mostly operate. I don't need profit and fortune to keep crafting. Sucks for those who do, really.

[Aveline]

Again, "The immigrants are taking our jobs" doesn't even fly in the real world. Much less so in a MMO.

That isn't what I said, nor does it have anything to do with my point.

Bottom line, putting something up for a fair price is not price gouging. It's putting something up for a fair price. This goes far beyond one goldsmith undercutting everyone else just to clear out their bags.

Personally, I'd like to see permanent degradation on items that are being resold (like a used lance, for instance), so that they are less useful than a brand new one and therefore worthy of a lower price on the market. Currently, there is no difference between a used lance and a brand new one, and therefore no way a buyer could tell the difference between a used one selling for less and a new one that a crafter just put time and materials into. We wouldn't want greedy price-cutters to reap all the benefits of someone else's work, now would we?

Also Darkstar -- for sure. The majority of the stuff I craft and sell right now is mid-range weaving and leatherworking items. I make enough on those to continue to fund my armorsmith grinding to 50.

We're getting far, far off the point of the OP, though, and I'd hate to see the trolls win. Oscillate has valid points and I'm curious to see how the development team responds to them, and what they have planned for a (hopefully) real and working market system in the future.

[Xenor]

There are always amethyst and garnet raws on the market. Ripping and flipping doesn't really deserve very much profit at all. Again, NQ amethyst and garnet rings should be worth less than the cost of a raw amethyst and garnet. If the market were adequately supplied and perfused, they would be. Only by taking advantage of imperfusion, vanity, or stupidity can you turn a profit on the profitless.

Honestly people trying to scrounge as much as they can should thank undercutters. For every one product they figure is actually worth the time it takes to sell it, there are ten that they don't and they're the reason you can essentially treat most gear like a consumable as you level what you want. If everyone were penny pinchers, everything would be annoyingly priced instead of priced to move. I want rank 30 **** priced to move.

Price gougers just care too much about money, so they call everyone else undercutters.

If I intend to sell a lance I've outgrown, and there are 4 of them on the market at 170-200k, I'm putting mine up for 130k. No offense, but I don't give a ****. It's called a USED lance. I'm not bothering with you or it any more. I want it out of my inventory and gone to the very next lance buyer. I don't care if that's "your" market. For that one lance, it's mine.

They're priced as they are because it's a pain in the ass to go out and get Amethyst and Garnet gems when you could be out mining valuable gold at Halatali. This increases their value. The supply of those gems in the wards is lower than the other T2 gems so they tend to be priced higher when they are on sale, this means people aren't likely to skill up on them.

If we used the kind of logic you're using then all NQ items would cost less than the total cost of materials. Problem is items reach a value where no one bothers to make them because they aren't worth the bazaar space or the effort of synthing it. For Garnet and Amethyst rings I place this at 50. If the price drops below that I stop making and move on to something better. If the price drops lower then others stop making them and you end up with none up for sale.

Ok your lance. What if people come along and list those four at 100k? You have to go even lower which means you're getting at least 70k less than you could have. Then they go lower than you again etc. You're better off NPCing it if you don't care about the gil to save yourself the trouble. Back when we had that undercutting issue with electrum ring +1s I ended up giving them to LS members because it wasn't worth the effort any more.

[Peregrine]

Lol it's exactly what you meant. The immigrants are taking your jobs and doing what you do for less.

[Peregrine]

They're priced as they are because it's a pain in the ass to go out and get Amethyst and Garnet gems when you could be out mining valuable gold at Halatali. This increases their value. The supply of those gems in the wards is lower than the other T2 gems so they tend to be priced higher when they are on sale, this means people aren't likely to skill up on them.

If we used the kind of logic you're using then all NQ items would cost less than the total cost of materials. Problem is items reach a value where no one bothers to make them because they aren't worth the bazaar space or the effort of synthing it. For Garnet and Amethyst rings I place this at 50. If the price drops below that I stop making and move on to something better. If the price drops lower then others stop making them and you end up with none up for sale.

Ok your lance. What if people come along and list those four at 100k? You have to go even lower which means you're getting at least 70k less than you could have. Then they go lower than you again etc. You're better off NPCing it if you don't care about the gil to save yourself the trouble. Back when we had that undercutting issue with electrum ring +1s I ended up giving them to LS members because it wasn't worth the effort any more.

How much do you pay for a market raw garnet and amethyst? 12k? Come on. Ripping and flipping simple rings for at elast a 40k profit for NQ and 340k profit for a lousy, pointless +1 is making out like a bandit.

If there's someone willing to put that lance up for 100k, more power to them. I'm tired of seeing gougers waste their and my time by running bazaars that aren't worth anyone's time.

Electrum ring+1s are ****. Garbage. You didn't stand a chance. You never will in worthless pieces like those and rings. They're grinding materials. Who are you kidding trying to sell them for 80k? I made so many that not only did I give them away to people I knew, but I made more than sold on the market. There will always be someone grinding on those.

You all want paid unreasonable wages. Why that is, I don't know. Doesn't really matter. Not gonna happen. They have you by the balls. They're an undercutter to you, you're a price gouger to them...and honestly you either play by their rules or you quit.

Undercutting is reasonable. It's the people who think their products are worth more than they actually are who are unreasonable.

I don't give a damn what you make selling lances to lowbies "because it's a pain to gather the mats." This lance is moving, because it's not a pain to buy a used hand me down.

[TheVedis]

How much do you pay for a market raw garnet and amethyst? 12k? Come on. Ripping and flipping simple rings for at elast a 40k profit for NQ and 340k profit for a lousy, pointless +1 is making out like a bandit.

If there's someone willing to put that lance up for 100k, more power to them. I'm tired of seeing gougers waste their and my time by running bazaars that aren't worth anyone's time.

Electrum ring+1s are ****. Garbage. You didn't stand a chance. You never will. They're grinding materials. Who are you kidding trying to sell them for 80k?

if its not selling the price gets lowered

thats the law of supply and demand

if someones willing to pay it, then it is worth the time
if they arent buying them for those prices, thats when its overpriced

[Aveline]

Lol it's exactly what you meant. The immigrants are taking your jobs and doing what you do for less.

There would have to be immigrants in the first place... I think the analogy you're looking for is "shady E-bay store."

[Mack]

Last time I checked, Microsoft and Sony are still alive and kicking.

Different cost system. Microsoft and Sony may sell their consoles at a loss or at a very low margin (which I'm more inclined to believe) but they make their profit from video games. There is hardly any justifiable reason to sell at a loss in real life.

[Peregrine]

There would have to be immigrants in the first place... I think the analogy you're looking for is "shady E-bay store."

There's nothing shady about their business. There is something shady about your 40% marked-up crap though. About all you're arguing is that you deserve more profit for the same gear...because you made it and that apparently means its worth more than the market says it is.

Unless you're a celebrity that's not going to work.