How to Monk (50 onry)

[ChaozK]

I am not convinced about impulse drive tbh. It has lower dmg than bootshine due to the crit and it has the same dmg as Snap punch but doesnt keep up your GL, costs more TP and has lower potency on failed positioning. I would argue that its better to go for more BS>TS>SP combos in terms of dps if you have the extra time. Thoughts?

Edit: I could see it being useful if you have a very high crit rate though, making the additional crit chance of BS and True Strike somewhat obsolete.

[Rapiso]

I am not convinced about impulse drive tbh. It has lower dmg than bootshine due to the crit and it has the same dmg as Snap punch but doesnt keep up your GL, costs more TP and has lower potency on failed positioning. I would argue that its better to go for more BS>TS>SP combos in terms of dps if you have the extra time. Thoughts?

Edit: I could see it being useful if you have a very high crit rate though, making the additional crit chance of BS and True Strike somewhat obsolete.

SK/TS/SP/ID/ID/ID is still the best rotation

[ChaozK]

SK/TS/SP/ID/ID/ID is still the best rotation

Can you elaborate on that a bit?

ID+ID+ID = 180+180+180
compare that to
BS+true+SP

BS>ID in terms of dps due to the guaranteed crit
SP=ID both are 180

So it boils down to the question can the 30 extra potency from ID>TrueS compensate for the dmg loss on BS and the 5% lower crit chance? I think this should be really close. Honest question.

[Allyrion]

Can you elaborate on that a bit?

ID+ID+ID = 180+180+180
compare that to
BS+true+SP

BS>ID in terms of dps due to the guaranteed crit
SP=ID both are 180

So it boils down to the question can the 30 extra potency from ID>TrueS compensate for the dmg loss on BS and the 5% lower crit chance? I think this should be really close. Honest question.

I tested this on a dummy. You are right. It's considerably close. My avg hits for Bootshine are 310-325, my avg hits for True strike are 275 to 290, and snap punch goes 300-315 (same for ID).

The ID rotation pulls ahead if you don't really count True's 5% crit (which is really unreliable to count on anyway since it's just one attack). It is very close and since attacks have variable damage, some of it is RNG.

The ID rotation is not TP efficient. True Strike is 10 TP less than Twin Snakes. ID-ID-ID costs 50 TP more than BS-True-SP.

So make your decision on that. Almalexia posts a great comparison a while back as well which favored BS-True-SP.

EDIT:

Here's is Almalexia's comparison, for reference.

Well, you got me interested enough in ID to test it with a parser. I went toe-to-straw with some training dummies and here's what I found:

Conditions -
1) No DoTs; the parser does not read them accurately (no crits, Fracture is 30s cross-class, author-made algorithm)
2) No off-GCD skills or buffs except Invigorate
3) Always locked on; no cutting from back to flank
4) Open with Dragon Kick from the flank as the timer starts
5) GL3 buildup counts
6) 3 minutes, no survivors

ID+MNK rotation
DK > Twin > Snap (x3 to start for GL) > ID > ID > ID > repeat

At 2.05 GCD, I was able to maintain GL3 within a hairs breadth of it wearing off. This approach certainly is easier: 3 hits from the flank, 3 from the rear and repeat. There is no room for error here though - if you don't mash those keys, you will lose GL.

What ended up getting me around the 1:40 mark was TP--I ran out. After I used Invigorate, I ran out of TP again somewhere around 2:20. GL was lost and I had to rebuild GL from scratch. This impacted DPS, but as you will see, it wasn't as big a gap as it could have been:

MNK rotation only
DK > Twin > Snap > Boot > True > Snap > repeat, or alternate DK and Twin as desired

I will admit I goofed on this and misused DK/Twin once or twice. There is a ~2000 point difference between an ID rotation and strict MNK rotation; disregarding the discrepancy in auto-attacks, the difference is only about 1600.

I also ran out of TP on this rotation as well, around 2:00, but Invigorate saw me through to the end of 3 minutes. GL went uninterrupted.

I would love to compare these again when we can accurately measure DoTs, but the off-GCD abilities alone would be a fraction of a second I wouldn't risk on a tight, 6-step ID rotation. Nevertheless:

ID pros:
Simple rotation: easy to manage all buffs
Simple attack pattern: 3 from the flank, 3 from the rear

ID cons:
Unforgiving rotation: getting back to GL at 2s GCD is a close call every time
Stresses TP: not even Invigorate can get you far past 2:20 of solid punching
Specific positioning: missing a rear attack of ID will set you back in potency without advancing MNK forms

MNK pros:
Always advancing: sticking to MNK skills will always move forms forward, so it is safer to manage GL
Positional variety: MNK can use a different skill on demand to maximize DPS if the mob position suddenly changes

MNK cons:
Inconsistent rotation: you will have to bounce between different skills constantly
On-the-run: You will have to constantly move from flank to side in the middle of a rotation in order to maximize DPS

Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...NK-class/page4

[Rapiso]

Can you elaborate on that a bit?

ID+ID+ID = 180+180+180
compare that to
BS+true+SP

BS>ID in terms of dps due to the guaranteed crit
SP=ID both are 180

So it boils down to the question can the 30 extra potency from ID>TrueS compensate for the dmg loss on BS and the 5% lower crit chance? I think this should be really close. Honest question.

Assuming you have 12% crit chance



So ID rotation is slightly better, but cost way more TP.
The BS/TrS roation is more TP efficient, but you lack of windows to refresh ToD/Fracture.

Almalexia posts a great comparison

Please ...

[Allyrion]

The BS/TrS roation is more TP efficient, but you lack of windows to refresh ToD/Fracture.

What? The ID rotation is MUCH tighter. Not only have you not refreshed the Twin Snakes buff with one cycle, but you haven't refreshed GL3 either.
With BS/TrS, you may drop the 10% buff. With ID, you WILL lose GL3.
If you take off one ID to give time for dots, the ID rotation loses its dps advantage.

[Rapiso]

What? The ID rotation is MUCH tighter. Not only have you not refreshed the Twin Snakes buff with one cycle, but you haven't refreshed GL3 either.
With BS/TrS, you may drop the 10% buff. With ID, you WILL lose GL3.

? Okay.

If you take off one ID to give time for dots, the ID rotation loses its dps advantage.

Have you done the math ?

[Allyrion]

? Okay.



Have you done the math ?

No, but on a basic comparison level - the difference between ID and, say DK (the next ability in the cycle), is more than 10%. The BS-TrS loses about 15 potency from applying a dot. I know there's more involved than that but I can't see the ID losing less than 15 potency when taking out an ID from the rotation.

I'd love to see it properly simulated though.