Please nerf Holy.

[DistraughtKoala]

This thread has to be troll... It just has to...

[Morthis]

that isn't doable with a scholar, that's what OP is referring to.

those ~10 minute WP runs require that specific setup, pld/whm/blm/brd

Scholar can do it too, the speed run will just take a minute or two longer (I know, the horror).

The notion that a spell or class needs to be nerfed because of such a specific incidence making one class capable of doing things slightly faster than another is ridiculous. If anything, the BRD/BLM vs the rest of the dps discrepancy is far worse than the WHM vs SCH one in this instance. At least WHM vs SCH is just a small time difference, while most classes will struggle to put out anywhere near the same level of sustained AoE damage that a BLM can in this scenario.

[COSMIC_RENEGADE]

Never really had an issue.

Swiftcast -> Shadow Flare
Rouse fairy if needed
Cast DoTs then Bane
Miasma II if you feel like it

Don't even need to drop Cleric Stance since your fairy can do the job pretty easily and Lustrate is based on max HP.

I did the same thing speed running WP today. I never go into Cleric Stance and still put out amazing dps.

[Teraluna]

I did the same thing speed running WP today. I never go into Cleric Stance and still put out amazing dps.

What !?!!!!!
Please nerf Shadow Flare :-) Please boost Holy....
ok, whole post needs closing down as it's obviously a troll on the whm - and not the first by the op.

[sheepysheepy]

lets change the entire game so a less than perfect group setup can farm an entry-level dungeon a little bit easier

[Tightpants]

tbh i'm not sure i get this thread.

holy is basically the strongest aoe in the game.

why are people acting like it's not?

i don't think it should be changed, but why are people pretending that sch has comparable aoe to whm?

i mean there's even a sch above me that's saying he's doing "amazing dps" while not in cleric stance.

if you're doing amazing dps, why not change to cleric stance and do 50% more dmg? too many buttons to press? or do you just like missing out of free damage?

i must be in bizaro world.

[Garnatian]

tbh i'm not sure i get this thread.

holy is basically the strongest aoe in the game.

why are people acting like it's not?

i don't think it should be changed, but why are people pretending that sch has comparable aoe to whm?

i mean there's even a sch above me that's saying he's doing "amazing dps" while not in cleric stance.

if you're doing amazing dps, why not change to cleric stance and do 50% more dmg? too many buttons to press? or do you just like missing out of free damage?

i must be in bizaro world.

I wouldn't really post in this thread. I gave up on it. Most of the people here are CNJs, so the bias is almost palpable and a lot of them are just plain wrong or in denial.

The current state of farming in this game favours WHM over SCH by quite some margin simply due to Holy, whether people want to admit that, that's up to them, but some of the responses here are plain ridiculous.

[Morthis]

holy is basically the strongest aoe in the game.

why are people acting like it's not?

Disagreeing Holy needs to be nerfed != saying Holy is weak.

Also best by what metric? It's a good AoE, but I doubt we'll see WHM getting invited as "AoE dps" any time soon.

I wouldn't really post in this thread. I gave up on it. Most of the people here are CNJs, so the bias is almost palpable and a lot of them are just plain wrong or in denial.

This is pretty laughable. A WHM defending his class is bias, but a SCH calling for nerfs on the one "competing" class is not? You're just as biased, in fact, you probably are more so given your past "nerf WHM" posts. I know it's probably a struggle, but try thinking a little bit before you post next time.

[Raminax]

More like you realizing your complaint is hilariously petty in the grand scheme of things (not to mention the blatant ignorance of game mechanics in the initial post). Maybe we'll also make sure that Wandering Palace will require an average ilvl of 80 to enter next patch. Because screw those filthy noobs wanting to farm it for gear! They should farm Stone Vigil for their full Darklight sets! But yeah, sure, make Scholars and White Mages identical. Destroy all class identity for the sake of perfect balance and boredom.

I won't deny that Holy is a very strong AoE, but I sure won't be so silly to ignore its massive mana cost, enmity actually being meaningful in this game, the White Mage requiring melee range to cast it efficiently, meaning enemies will be in range to bash your skull in and obviously the fact that after the full Stun DR kicks in, your tank will be taking damage while you aren't healing. Are these drawbacks enough to keep Holy balanced? Maybe, maybe not, that's a matter of opinion. But please, don't go claiming it's an instant win button while Scholars are victims. I've seen enough overgeared Scholars while tanking that just sit in Cleric Stance and do good DPS the entirety of Wandering Palace while the fairy keeps me alive, with the occasional Lustrate. Sure, the runs don't take 10 minutes, but 20-25 minutes is hardly anything to complain about. Those 10 minute runs are a fantasy for the Duty Finder anyway.

Also, please don't talk about bias. You have a history of "Nerf White Mage!" posts everywhere. Not to mention calling us wrong and not refuting a single claim. Way to go, champ.

[Ryuko]

I would actually say WHM and SCH are pretty comparable in WP speedruns...

When I go through speedruns as a white mage, I have to switch between Cleric stance (holy spamming) and turning off Cleric stance, refreshing Regen, and capping the tank off with a Cure II. My WHM is well-geared (Relic and full DL) so gear is not an issue here.

Scholar, on the other hand, have a fairy to continue throwing out supplemental heals. Lustrate, to my knowledge, is percentage based on the tank's total HP and thus it doesn't MATTER if you are in reducing your damage by being in Cleric Stance or not.

I'm a summoner. I run this as a summoner. My damage is DoT damage. A scholar in Cleric stance can do comparable damage with their DoTs simply because of how the mechanics work. I'm not complaining about it because every job has their place and I like that SCH have more 'options' than just staight-up healing. So, they can throw up the three DoTs, Bane (for one Aethercharge), and switch right back to healing. All the while, their pet gives supplemental heals/buffs to the party which WHM do NOT have. Don't forget those shields and Lustrate, too. If you use one Aethercharge for Bane, you have two Lustrates waiting and ready to use. That's 40% total HP, including whatever else you cast and the heals your pet throws out... more than enough to get this done.

Holy spam will hit for around 500 AoE, but it's a huge manadrain. DoTs, on the other hand, are not. If you are speedrunning, you have to make a choice between damage and conserving mana. No one wants you to go OOM.

Also, perhaps this has been explained but I always assume people post as their main class on these forums. OP, do you play SCH or are you posting for someone else who is unhappy about it?

By the way... scholar Titan parties? Has anyone mentioned this? Scholar is a pretty powerful, versatile class. Just because they can't faceroll quite as fast as a WHM on an iLevel 55 dungeon being completed by mostly people in iLevel 70/80/90 gear doesn't mean an adjustment needs to be made.