PLD is a waste on anything other than Titan and Coil.

[Tyrial]

I will mention that I was tanking AK in DF earlier, both DPS were new but the healer we ended up with was very skilled, and on my war in full str tanking everything, he was able to just put regen on me and pop cleric stance to help carry our new dps players. With my self heals and his regen I very rarely needed any heals from him. Which is something that every pld in this thread has adamantly stated would be impossible with a WAR tank. People are so close minded it's absurd.

All I see in this thread is you trying WAY too hard to justify the class you picked when everyone else is in consensus that it needs improvements. You should really work on that inferiority complex you have going as well as the exaggerations.

[Vmage]

well.. you're ignoring the fact that paladins do dps all the time too

a paladin doing dps 100% of the time + a white mage doing dps 2/3s the time is more total dps than a warrior doing dps 100% of the time + a white mage doing dps 1/3 the time

the gap between war and pld isn't that wide

it's absolutely bigger on aoe packs, but so is the mage damage :s

[Shougo]

new record 9 minute WP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8wwzsPcNB4

show me a warrior who can do that
how can a high defense a waste in 4 man content? LOL

Purely based on the pulls and damage taken, any decently geared warrior can make those and survive just as well. I was even under the impression every warrior made those very same aoe pulls in wp.
Won't be as fast with a warrior though, since that paladin pops sprint freely and can still aoe tank fine with flash. As a warrior you don't want to arrive at the next pack with 200tp.

Not saying warriors are fine. But just letting you know any warrior with good gear can do that, just slightly slower.

[oceanlord]

Purely based on the pulls and damage taken, any decently geared warrior can make those and survive just as well. I was even under the impression every warrior made those very same aoe pulls in wp.
Won't be as fast with a warrior though, since that paladin pops sprint freely and can still aoe tank fine with flash. As a warrior you don't want to arrive at the next pack with 200tp.

Not saying warriors are fine. But just letting you know any warrior with good gear can do that, just slightly slower.

video proof?
its not about tp and you can cross class flash no biggie only need a few flash at some point, its about how you can survive with that amount of mob

[ReaperDx]

I like how it boiled down to the OP saying "Wait, no WAR is better than PLD in lower content but in shout/DF only groups, that video doesn't count.........". Good job backing up your statements with evidence and proof; saying "Well my parser shows good numbers on everything before Garuda" doesn't cut it.

I really hope the recently announced WAR buffs bring them up to a level where WAR tanks are actually desired in end game tanking, but since ARR launch up to now, they are just not better than a PLD in pretty much anything. Oh wait, they are better than PLD's in CM/Prae/WP/AK shout and DF only groups, I forgot.

[Tugboat]

All of these arguments seem to make a statement along the lines of "A warrior can do everything a PLD can do until it can't..." Now I suppose there might be some sort of argument to be made on a class to class basis for a small DPS change on grinding dungeons. Though those arguments ignore healer mana loss, requirements for higher gear on group DPS, and the fact that it has no effective difference on group outcome.

What I find really interesting is that the need for a warrior rework seems to be supported by paladins, healers the devs and it seems to be largely the warrior community that continues to speak against a change. I don't think I have ever been in a community were everyone is calling for a class buff except for the class that is getting buffed.

P.S. If you're assessing your class strengths off of AK and Prae runs I would suggest that you might be completely missing the point by about 100 miles.

[Jonjey]

stuff

implying ak and prae runs don't make up 90% of what everyone in this game does, even elitists.

[Tugboat]

implying ak and prae runs don't make up 90% of what everyone in this game does, even elitists.

No. I'm implying that AK and Prae are tuned to be doable in lvl 55 gear in a spectrum that goes to 90. Yeah a war can do everything a pld can do for most of the game but he will be straining the group harder to do it and straining himself harder than the pld will be. It isn't balanced and needs to be fixed but not because of pug AK runs and basing arguments off of those runs does not properly display the problems at hand.

[Jonjey]

No. I'm implying that AK and Prae are tuned to be doable in lvl 55 gear in a spectrum that goes to 90. Yeah a war can do everything a pld can do for most of the game but he will be straining the group harder to do it and straining himself harder than the pld will be. It isn't balanced and needs to be fixed but not because of pug AK runs and basing arguments off of those runs does not properly display the problems at hand.

You, like every other person defending pld in this instance, are simply not listening to the debate at hand which is that war does more damage than pld therefore is a better fit in easier content. Bringing up things that aren't in question does nothing to sway anyone's opinions. I've said multiple times that pld is a better tank, that's obvious. But war does more damage while still being able to tank those things all the same, therefore being faster. Bringing up epic healer holy spammers and things that never happen in the typical pick up group or duty finder group also will not sway anyone's opinions. We aren't talking about anything other than CM, Prae, AK, or TWP pick up groups here. We're not talking about tanking titan in str gear, or being better than pld in full vit gear in coil. Simply that war does more damage, and for a typical party set up, with a typical strategy, war is faster than pld while still being able to tank the easier content all the same. I have also stated multiple times that WAR does in fact need to be fixed if we ever plan on being able to be good at anything other than what I've mentioned here. This thread was simply -supposed- to say that this content is what WAR shines in atm and the one thing that it is better at than PLD. If one were to qeue up for DF on one of these dungeons, WAR would be the better choice.

[CzeslawVarpulis]

snip

I believe the general consensus is that it doesn't matter what tank you bring, the content will be completed in the same amount of time, as it is more based on the party's total skill level. With a WAR, the WAR will throw in extra dps (better tank damage). With a PLD, the healer with throw in extra dps (better tank defense so less heals, healer can add dps).

I use DF all the time, almost every healer I get will throw dps with clerics stance.

The title should just honestly be "It doesn't matter what tank you pick pre-Titan".