If it is not broken, DO NO FIX IT!

[Zenaku]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

[Abriael]

All you said is the reason why the game is broken you do have to fix it because it lame. Allowing a mage use mail is very dumb.Hybrid system in paper it sound awesome then you play the game and you see. Oh look everyone can use the same spell wow that make my job easy i don't have to heal because 75% of DD can cure themself pretty well i only have to do it onces in a blue moon.

What the system they have not you lack class unique
Physical levels: I'm stuck to one class for hours too i reset
You lack a main role in a party seeing how all the DOW can tank beside ranger lol


I think what SE is coming up now is awesome and i hope they make it right this time around.

No.
1: allowing a mage to use a mail with diminished benefit not only isn't dumb, it's logical. Armor doesn't normally come with "anti class" systems installed.
2: There's no lack of class uniqueness in the game, due to several skill restrictions and the class affinity system. What the game lacks is any kind of challenge that could test abilities to the limit.
Mages can tank and DD can heal simply because mobs don't hit hard enough. Add challenging content, and people will snap back to their roles, or die trying to be badass (and stupid), while abilities from other roles will be relegated to support/solo roles. It's that simple.

[Zenaku]

No.
1: allowing a mage to use a mail with diminished benefit not only isn't dumb, it's logical. Armor doesn't normally come with "anti class" systems installed.
2: There's no lack of class uniqueness in the game, due to several skill restrictions and the class affinity system. What the game lacks is any kind of challenge that could test abilities to the limit.
Mages can tank and DD can heal simply because mobs don't hit hard enough. Add challenging content, and people will snap back to their roles, or die trying to be badass (and stupid), while abilities from other roles will be relegated to support/solo roles. It's that simple.

If the game does not lack class uniqueness why is SE making it so there class only gear? and thinking of two ideas

A: Unlock a job within your class when you reach a set level
B: Tree type build but it wont be like other game said in a interview.

So by saying the game does not lack uniqueness but then again SE trying to fix that mean there is no real role in the game.In every game every RPG there is a type of "anti class" for Armor Allowing a mage to use Mail in the history of FF make them a PLD allowing them to tank and have some healing powers. Sure SE can come up with any new system they like but in history of all RPG and Online games , you never see a mage wearing Mail. Allowing everyone to wear everything and allowing everyone to do every JA,WS,Spell make other players who have diff class feel like there not really a class them selfs.



The system fails that why they changing everything if you was right and i was wrong SE would have left it how it was. At the start i said it was pretty good idea then you get around rank 44 and you see how dumb it become.

You do know that every gear in the game does not really help you do a role as a hybrid Due to the fact that it does not work for your class? so wearing mail wont help you at all you better off just using your cloth vs mail. So you want to do more healing spell? on a DD class but all the good cloth gear that give you INT does not work for your class so you better of just using what you have but then you lack power matter if you put all your point onto INT. it wont matter because your a DD you don't get as much as you do as a mage so at the end your a half ass mage so what the point of a hybrid system if you can't really fully get too other mage power at least 70% of a real mage. You really can't make a Red mage in the game because you lack a lot of customization because the system fails this is what most of you guys are not really seeing the game is broken in many ways.

[EliseDee]

If the game does not lack class uniqueness why is SE making it so there class only gear? and thinking of two ideas

A: Unlock a job within your class when you reach a set level
B: Tree type build but it wont be like other game said in a interview.

So by saying the game does not lack uniqueness but then again SE trying to fix that mean there is no real role in the game.In every game every RPG there is a type of "anti class" for Armor Allowing a mage to use Mail in the history of FF make them a PLD allowing them to tank and have some healing powers. Sure SE can come up with any new system they like but in history of all RPG and Online games , you never see a mage wearing Mail. Allowing everyone to wear everything and allowing everyone to do every JA,WS,Spell make other players who have diff class feel like there not really a class them selfs.



The system fails that why they changing everything if you was right and i was wrong SE would have left it how it was. At the start i said it was pretty good idea then you get around rank 44 and you see how dumb it become.

You do know that every gear in the game does not really help you do a role as a hybrid Due to the fact that it does not work for your class? so wearing mail wont help you at all you better off just using your cloth vs mail. So you want to do more healing spell? on a DD class but all the good cloth gear that give you INT does not work for your class so you better of just using what you have but then you lack power matter if you put all your point onto INT. it wont matter because your a DD you don't get as much as you do as a mage so at the end your a half ass mage so what the point of a hybrid system if you can't really fully get too other mage power at least 70% of a real mage. You really can't make a Red mage in the game because you lack a lot of customization because the system fails this is what most of you guys are not really seeing the game is broken in many ways.

THe reasont hat their doing things the way they are is completely based on the user base and what they are moaning about and I like that dont get me wrong, I think its good, but I think its severly lame to bend over and take it cause people are crying about things that arent wrong its just a lets see how much we can cry about until this game is just another clone of every other MMORPG and stop playing it when the next clone comes out. And you keep going back to that example dude, lay off of it it was just that an example, I am not ever changing any gear in attempts to heal better, cause I dont care taht much IF I DID, it would be done via STAT ALLOTMENT cause I can do that. I like the fact that you can wear whatever with whomever. Leave it as is, Make class specific gear for 40+ AF whatever, but when it comes to crafter wear its whoever whenever cause most of the reason I like it is because I like being able to wear crafter gear in town and look dope.

[Abriael]

If the game does not lack class uniqueness why is SE making it so there class only gear?

Because people like you whined about it over and over and they caved.
Of course an healthy mix between specialized and generic gear is not a bad thing.

So by saying the game does not lack uniqueness but then again SE trying to fix that mean there is no real role in the game.

The fact that SE may be considering to cave under the whines of the mass of people that didn't even get how the system works doesn't mean that the system doesn't work.

In every game every RPG there is a type of "anti class" for Armor Allowing a mage to use Mail in the history of FF make them a PLD allowing them to tank and have some healing powers. Sure SE can come up with any new system they like but in history of all RPG and Online games , you never see a mage wearing Mail.

LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.

Allowing everyone to wear everything and allowing everyone to do every JA,WS,Spell make other players who have diff class feel like there not really a class them selfs.

If you are affected by insecurities, it's not really SE's role to fix that.

I can just level up a mage class use the spell on my pugs and get the JobT that allow me to increase affinity to that class and i could heal myself just as good as a Mage without AOE cures in FFXI we never had much AOE cures so i don't see how i could not main heal? with mage affinity and put all my point to Mind.

1: even with traits you'll never be as good as an healer as a specialized healer. This not to mention the fact that if you use a trait to heal, your gimp yourself in your main role, because you use a trait slot for another role.
2: The fact that you can heal YOURSELF (using up time that you should use performing your main role) doesn't mean you can main heal. Main healing without any AOE effects is laughable and ineffective.
3: Your mana pool is extremely limited. Even just spamming CURE 2 over a short period of time will make you run out of mana extremely easily.

You may somehow manage to main heal on unchallenging mobs, but as soon as a mob with challenging damage/abilities comes up, you simply die, or make your group die.

You do know that every gear in the game does not really help you do a role as a hybrid Due to the fact that it does not work for your class? so wearing mail wont help you at all you better off just using your cloth vs mail.

I know that perfectly, and that's exactly the balancing factor. It allows people CHOICE, but they have to tradeoff benefits.

You simply don't know how the mechanics you're complaining about work. Again, you're partly justified by the fact that SE didn't yet introduce any challenging content to make you learn the hard way. Still, it's quite funny to read.

[EliseDee]

Because people like you whined about it over and over and they caved.
Of course an healthy mix between specialized and generic gear is not a bad thing.



The fact that SE may be considering to cave under the whines of the mass of people that didn't even get how the system works doesn't mean that the system doesn't work.



LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.



If you are affected by insecurities, it's not really SE's role to fix that.



1: even with traits you'll never be as good as an healer as a specialized healer. This not to mention the fact that if you use a trait to heal, your gimp yourself in your main role, because you use a trait slot for another role.
2: The fact that you can heal YOURSELF (using up time that you should use performing your main role) doesn't mean you can main heal. Main healing without any AOE effects is laughable and ineffective.
3: Your mana pool is extremely limited. Even just spamming CURE 2 over a short period of time will make you run out of mana extremely easily.

You may somehow manage to main heal on unchallenging mobs, but as soon as a mob with challenging damage/abilities comes up, you simply die, or make your group die.



I know that perfectly, and that's exactly the balancing factor. It allows people CHOICE, but they have to tradeoff benefits.

You simply don't know how the mechanics you're complaining about work. Again, you're partly justified by the fact that SE didn't yet introduce any challenging content to make you learn the hard way. Still, it's quite funny to read.

Someone give this man a Nobel Peace Prize

[Sephr]

Someone give this man a Nobel Peace Prize

Careful, your IQ's showing.

LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.



If you are affected by insecurities, it's not really SE's role to fix that.

Making a new system is something we all welcome, but it has to build on and be better than the old system, not something so rushed and essentially ineffective at what it's trying achieve.
When has anyone said being able to heal yourself is a bad thing? That's such a blanket term. The problem people have is that the current system is prohibitive. It discourages class-changing beyond archetypes, and stops stats from being meaningful.

I welcome change, I don't need some awful attempt at psychoanalysis to not only degrade the debate, but fail miserably at telling me why I want what I want (and also, most of the playerbase, did you read the player poll?)

[Selamis]

No.
1: allowing a mage to use a mail with diminished benefit not only isn't dumb, it's logical. Armor doesn't normally come with "anti class" systems installed.
2: There's no lack of class uniqueness in the game, due to several skill restrictions and the class affinity system. What the game lacks is any kind of challenge that could test abilities to the limit.
Mages can tank and DD can heal simply because mobs don't hit hard enough. Add challenging content, and people will snap back to their roles, or die trying to be badass (and stupid), while abilities from other roles will be relegated to support/solo roles. It's that simple.

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage. A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level 1. A thief couldn't wear certain things a warrior could, let alone any of the mages.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness! How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same? Obviously you are in the minority because SE is changing all of this to stop being an issue, the players have spoken in the polls, and we want things changed and are getting them changed. If the game was not broken in mostly every design aspect, Tanaka wouldn't have been replaced, and the game would be doing well now, and most importantly it wouldn't have gotten trashed by every single game review, including those in Japan. Obvious game flaws are obvious, why are you so keen on defending bad decisions?

LOL! God forbid a developer introducing a new concept that's not part of the HISTORY of RPG!
Or better, of the absolutely artificial and innatural limitations that are part of the HISTORY of RPG.

Look where that got them with 14 when they tried to reinvent the genre, they even said they tried to make the game different on purpose, and it clearly suffered because of that.

[Xzen]

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage. A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level 1. A thief couldn't wear certain things a warrior could, let alone any of the mages.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness! How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same? Obviously you are in the minority because SE is changing all of this to stop being an issue, the players have spoken in the polls, and we want things changed and are getting them changed. If the game was not broken in mostly every design aspect, Tanaka wouldn't have been replaced, and the game would be doing well now, and most importantly it wouldn't have gotten trashed by every single game review, including those in Japan. Obvious game flaws are obvious, why are you so keen on defending bad decisions?

Mages wore armor in Ultima Online if they felt like it. It just reduced their mana regeneration. In The Elder Scrolls games I can cast magic in full plate as a mage if I wanted. Darkfall you can be a mage in plate if you want. Hell in Dungeons and Dragons you could wear plate as a mage and take a penalty. So in essence a lot of RPGs since pin and paper have allowed mages to wear heavy armors with penalties.

I agree with lack of class uniqueness.

[Abriael]

Please do the community a favor and stop posting such ridiculous garbage.

Please do the community a favor, and respect people's opinion. Otherwise, you have no place in a discussion forum.

A mage has never been able to wear heavy armor and chainmail, sweet lord, what games have you ever played where mages wore mail? I'm dying to know. Did you not play FFXI? From the get go, certain jobs could wear certain armor and were limited by job/class, and that included the melee jobs at level

LOL. You talk like mages exist in reality and they have never been able to wear heavy armor.
1: armor realistically can be worn by anyone. Some people are more trained to wear it, and will receive a certain benefits, others are less, and will receive less benefits. That's what simple logic dictates. It's both realistic and convenient gameplay wise, not to mention the fact that it allows more freedom in looks.
2: There are plenty games, both videogames and pen/paper RPGs, in which there are several caster-types that can wear heavy armor. Your perspective of the genre is, apparently, quite limited by the (probably few) games you played.
3: this is not Final Fantasy XI. There are other games around than Final Fantasy XI.

There's no lack of class uniqueness? Even Yoshi-P has said he feels there isn't any uniqueness!

The fact that he humors the masses doesn't mean that he really thinks that.

How can any job be unique when you can use any traits from other jobs and essentially make them all the same?

Because they're not the same. The class affinity system makes sure that you'll never be as effective as the original class when using a skill with another class. Also, there are further limitations in place, for instance non-caster classes can't cast AOE. Finally, there are evident differences in HP, Mana, Defence, physical attack and such, that makes it so that for instance, a melee class cannot nearly heal as effectively as a caster, simply because he'll run out of mana in 2 minutes flat, and he won't have significant ways to get it back in time.
If you don't know the ins and outs of the system, don't blame it on the system.

Obviously you are in the minority

Luckily Games development is not a democracy.

Look where that got them with 14 when they tried to reinvent the genre, they even said they tried to make the game different on purpose, and it clearly suffered because of that.

What got them where they are has been releasing an unfinished, content-deprieved, unchallenging game. The basic systems, though, are solid, and people would enjoy (and understand) them much more if they were finished and polished, if there was sizable content, and if that such content was challenging enough to test them to the limit.

Classes appear all the same to people lacking insight, because there's NO mobs, out there, that challenges them to their limit, forcing people to stay in the role they are most EFFECTIVE at.

I challenge anyone reading this thread to name ONE group-oriented mob that they find anywhere challenging or difficult to beat in this game.

In a system that features any degree of versatility, there's no need to specialize unless challenge is present. Once challenge is present, people will have to stick to the role they can perform better in order to survive. And be viable.