SQUARE-ENIX, remember not to marginalise crafters

[Vesperia]

so what you are saying it is you, as a dow, that started this mess now want free gear after you charged for the materials. not going to happen.

WTF. Why are you being so obtuse? I am saying a functioning economy works on the exchange of goods an services. DoW, DoL, and DoM farm materials and SELL THEM. DoH craft and SELL THEIR CRAFTS.

In the event of a quest which they cannot do, DoH and DoL either switch to a DoW/DoM or hire one to fight for them if they can't do a quest.

It's called exchange of services.

[darkstarpoet1]

WTF. Why are you being so obtuse? I am saying a functioning economy works on the exchange of goods an services. DoW, DoL, and DoM farm materials and SELL THEM. DoH craft and SELL THEIR CRAFTS.

In the event of a quest which they cannot do, DoH and DoL either switch to a DoW/DoM or hire one to fight for them if they can't do a quest.

It's called exchange of services.

why are you overlooking the fact that the difference is they are not paying the crafters to do their story quests? i already said that the crafters should have their own main story quest. why are you ignoring the issue?

the issue IS the quests are gimped because of dol/doh being in them as well as just having some horrible dom/dow classes that can't do anything half competent.

the easiest solution IS give the doh/dol their own main story quest so they can advance in the game as much as any other class in game. then both get what they want and the only people you can blame on the gimped fights are the people playing battle classes that are incompetent.

i am saying this as someone with both a dow and a dom at 50 so i feel the other battle classes pain, but feel leaving the other disciples out of the main story would be wrong. if you notice i do not have a dol or doh at 50 so i am not taking up for myself, but for others.

if they want dol/doh to be full classes i have no issue with that, but they should have a storyline for them in which battle is not part of their story. the main story is nothing more than a class quest you can do based off a single level so why not split it into disciples and let each one have their own story advancement? this would not affect us battle classes at all and not have the other disciples left to be inferior.

[Mack]

main story content for a crafting or gathering class would not really make much sense

Doesn't make much sense now that they're parleing through a boss fight either. I personally don't care what makes sense - I don't think they should marginalize crafters because its different and its cool (although I hardly touch crafting) but I think they need to keep battle content separate and definitely storyline separate...storyline quests suck monkey balls and I want better ones and plenty of people want better ones. Crafters wanna do storyline? get a party to help you or change classes.

[Amineri]

I really hope that SE brings back the idea of the gathering classes (and possibly crafting classes) having incapacitation moves against against certain enemy types, which would increase the drop rate of various rare items. Similar to the mosshorn, but for specific enemy types.

For example:
Miners have incaps against Golems, Gargoyles and other rock and/or dirt-like creatures.
Botanists have incaps against Treants, Morbols, Roselings and other plant-like creatures.
Fishers have incaps against Cassiopeia, Slugs, Orobon, and other sea creatures.

Of course DoW/M would have the majority of incapacitation moves, but this would provide a way to enhance gatherer gameplay, and I think it also fits within the realm of believability of "gathering" items from these specific creature-types.

I would be perfectly fine with gatherers not being able to solo the creatures, and requiring the assistance of DoW/M classes. Cooperation and interdependence for the win!

[darkstarpoet1]

I really hope that SE brings back the idea of the gathering classes (and possibly crafting classes) having incapacitation moves against against certain enemy types, which would increase the drop rate of various rare items. Similar to the mosshorn, but for specific enemy types.

For example:
Miners have incaps against Golems, Gargoyles and other rock and/or dirt-like creatures.
Botanists have incaps against Treants, Morbols, Roselings and other plant-like creatures.
Fishers have incaps against Cassiopeia, Slugs, Orobon, and other sea creatures.

Of course DoW/M would have the majority of incapacitation moves, but this would provide a way to enhance gatherer gameplay, and I think it also fits within the realm of believability of "gathering" items from these specific creature-types.

I would be perfectly fine with gatherers not being able to solo the creatures, and requiring the assistance of DoW/M classes. Cooperation and interdependence for the win!

the funny thing to me is

miners have a big pick....you can't tell me hitting something with that after poking holes in rock all day can't do damage.

the botanist have an axe....some of them look nicer than the mrd weapons, but they can't cut a rat.

fishers carry a gig for spearfishing.... that'd deffinitely poke a hole in anything

the best thing these classes can do with their nice dangerous weapons is pick up a pebble and throw it............

[Alise]

WTF. Why are you being so obtuse? I am saying a functioning economy works on the exchange of goods an services. DoW, DoL, and DoM farm materials and SELL THEM. DoH craft and SELL THEIR CRAFTS.

In the event of a quest which they cannot do, DoH and DoL either switch to a DoW/DoM or hire one to fight for them if they can't do a quest.

It's called exchange of services.

/agree!

this is what it supposed to be! Exchange of service.
DoW hunt their NM stuffs and then they should give it to crafter to make the gear for them back. They should know how to respect crafters who has the gut to bare all those repetitive mini-game just so he can craft gear for them. if they don't like to craft, nobody force them to do so anyway, MMO-game is not kind of game that one person can do everything. You gonna need to rely on crafters because you dislike the mini-game. and He gonna need your help to get materials in exchange anyway.

I even post in another topic to suggest more type of cooperation between crafter/gatherer and fighters. Gatherer may have to gather the item from the monster while the fighters are holding it at bay to get rare stuffs. Or leather worker can rip skin from monster directly during battle.

[darkstarpoet1]

/agree!

this is what it supposed to be! Exchange of service.
DoW hunt their NM stuffs and then they should give it to crafter to make the gear for them back. They should know how to respect crafters who has the gut to bare all those repetitive mini-game just so he can craft gear for them. if they don't like to craft, nobody force them to do so anyway, MMO-game is not kind of game that one person can do everything. You gonna need to rely on crafters because you dislike the mini-game. and He gonna need your help to get materials in exchange anyway.

I even post in another topic to suggest more type of cooperation between crafter/gatherer and fighters. Gatherer may have to gather the item from the monster while the fighters are holding it at bay to get rare stuffs. Or leather worker can rip skin from monster directly during battle.

if you followed his post earlier in which i replied to he said the crafters should make the gear for free and not charge for them. this was why i replied about getting me free materials. he is saying pay for the main story to be done for them. wouldn't that go against your instinct to play the game to follow someone around to leech the main storyline?

[Vesperia]

why are you overlooking the fact that the difference is they are not paying the crafters to do their story quests? i already said that the crafters should have their own main story quest. why are you ignoring the issue?

the issue IS the quests are gimped because of dol/doh being in them as well as just having some horrible dom/dow classes that can't do anything half competent.

the easiest solution IS give the doh/dol their own main story quest so they can advance in the game as much as any other class in game. then both get what they want and the only people you can blame on the gimped fights are the people playing battle classes that are incompetent.

i am saying this as someone with both a dow and a dom at 50 so i feel the other battle classes pain, but feel leaving the other disciples out of the main story would be wrong. if you notice i do not have a dol or doh at 50 so i am not taking up for myself, but for others.

if they want dol/doh to be full classes i have no issue with that, but they should have a storyline for them in which battle is not part of their story. the main story is nothing more than a class quest you can do based off a single level so why not split it into disciples and let each one have their own story advancement? this would not affect us battle classes at all and not have the other disciples left to be inferior.

I have both a R50 DoW and a DoH to 50 and I consider myself primarily a crafter.

With that said, I don't think crafting should have its own storyline separate from the main one primarily because it's such a flagrant waste of development time when most people will have a DoW class they can perform the story quest as, or alternatively, a DoW friend they can use as a crutch to get them through it.

[Amineri]

if you followed his post earlier in which i replied to he said the crafters should make the gear for free and not charge for them. this was why i replied about getting me free materials. he is saying pay for the main story to be done for them. wouldn't that go against your instinct to play the game to follow someone around to leech the main storyline?

Well, it would be a bit disappointing to feel like a complete leech. Perhaps a better solution would be to require the crafter to perform some action specific to their class, but need DoW/M support to do so? I don't want to post up spoiler, but many of the craft / gather quests have you do something similar.

However, this is definitely a more manpower-intensive type of thing for SE to do, so it wouldn't make sense to do so beyond the main storyline. The main storyline is a bit unique, since it explains a lot of the current situation in Eorzea, so it's kind of something that all players should see.

There are quite a few sidequests that are DoW/M only, and I'm sure that the new dungeon content will be DoW/M only. This is all fine. However, it would also be nice if some new content and gameplay were introduced for crafters / gatherers.

For crafters, perhaps group crafting similar to the synergy system to allow epic crafting sessions.

For gatherers, perhaps joint DoW/M - DoL raids on monster-infested areas with rare item gather points.

[Alise]

Exchange of service can be done in many way.

In the past, we did use the system that is a trade between item to service, or item to item, or service to service. However, it is impractical because each stuffs can have different value. So in the end, we change that system into nowadays "currency system" So basically, you can price your materials whatever you want. Demand/Supply will be the cut into your price. In the other hand, crafters, can price his product whatever he want too, and demand/supply will be the cut into his price too.

You may want to remind that :

-DoL gain a lot of money while they leveling.
-DoW gain little money while they leveling. (I don't think they change gear often enough to make the gil they gain from leves 100k/reset become a loss)
-DoH lose a lot of money while they leveling. So of course, they gonna need some profit back by selling product if they not gain money from other source such as DoW/DoL.

*pure DoH won't be able to survive nowadays, because selling product gain no profit, and the cost is very high, Nowadays all the people who are leveling crafts need to spend the money from other classes into this investment*