Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Reika]

I want jobs to be class specific.

If jobs are class specific an individual can have a sense of pride or accomplishment by being as good at their job as possible. (Oh hey look at Jimmy Jones! He's an awesome Dragoon!)

Alot of people find enjoyment in being recognized as being excellent in their favorite role.

The current system you equip a weapon and become a class, that class says you do this type of work. A gladiator is known for it's sword and shield. Marauders for it's large axes. Pugilists for their Hand weapons. Archer for their bows. Lancer for their polearms.

You equip a lance to become a lancer. At 85 Lancer has access to a quest to unlock the Dragoon Job. This job has the skill Jump.

If I equip a sword I am now a Gladiator and no longer have access to the dragoon job and jump. However I now have access to the berserker class where I can dual wield swords and have berserk.

Good?

We wont see Dragoon for ages if it is 85 . But Jobs shouldn't be locked to the class that unlocks them...

[Cairdeas]

Quesadillas. mmmm

The Section you highlights is under Classes not Jobs. They are segregated.

[BloodLotus]

What is it you want? Freedom of Choice to pick what ever weapon I wish for use with a Job AFTER I have mastered it.

Why do you think it's important we have it? Because not everyones definition for a Specific Job includes a Defined Weapon of Choice. And some enjoy following past FF lore, or building their character based of off a specific image of how they want their character.

How will it fit in with current game systems? Because the Job System defines Role, Skills, and Traits, the only thing weapon is left to define is Stats. Stats can be compensated against with gear so by allowing players to experiment with various combinations they can find a set up they truly enjoy.

Example. If a Player enjoys playing as someone who attacks monsters from behind, and enjoys doing it with a Great Axe, they should be allowed too. This would essentially be a Marauder/Thief based on skills in the game already, This combination would do nicely on its own. But if Thief is relegated to being unlocked and only usable by Gladiator, or Pugilist (Depending on which Class unlocks it.) Then a Marauder/Thief option becomes unusable even if its a very valid and very powerful option.

The downside to this openness is that some combinations might not be very powerful. An Archer/White Mage might not be the best healer. But if you lock Classes and Jobs only on certain patterns it breaks with the tradition of Final Fantasy XIV as it already stands, as well as past Final Fantasy's. In that the best option is not always the only option available. Some options are not the best option but are still an option and its up to the player to decide that for themselves.

In all of my posts all I was trying to say is that this probably won't be how it works.

[BloodLotus]

The Section you highlights is under Classes not Jobs. They are segregated.

You are absolutely correct.

You must have forgotten what your post said for you to feel that you need to point that out. Go reread your own post. I'll wait.

[Cairdeas]

You are absolutely correct.

You must have forgotten what your post said for you to feel that you need to point that out. Go reread your own post. I'll wait.

I asked where it said Jobs were being implemented to fix Class Uniqueness, it doesn't.

[BloodLotus]

It very well might work like that, but keep in mind that such a mechanic has to be universal. It may make intuitive sense that only the Lancer Class can have the Dragoon Job, but then the Development Team has to apply that rule universally across all the Jobs.

• Only [X Class] can have [Y Job].
• Only the Lancer Class can have the Dragoon Job (makes intuitive sense).
• Only the Archer Class can have the Ranger Job (also makes sense).
• Only the Pugilist Class can have the Monk Job (makes sense too).
• Only the Marauder Class can have the Warrior Job (makes sense).
• Only the Gladiator Class can have the Thief Job (the only DoW that can use a shield is also the only one that can be a Thief?? Not very intuitive).
• Only the Conjurer Class can have the White Mage Job (debatable, but OK).
• Only the Thaumaturge Class can have the Black Mage Job (so Black Mages would have to cross-class conjury elemental nukes at reduced effectiveness, since Conjurers won't be allowed to be Black Mages. That doesn't seem to make much sense).
• Only the ?? class can have the Red Mage Job (ran out of classes).
• Only the ?? class can have the Paladin Job (ran out of classes).
• Only the ?? class can have the Dark Knight Job (ran out of classes).

See the problem. Now one way out of this problem is instead of making classes to jobs one-to-one, make them two-to-one.

• Only Lancers and Marauders can have the Dragoon Job.
• Only Archers and ?? can have the Ranger Job.
• Only Pugilists and ?? can have the Monk Job.
• Only Marauders and Gladiators can have the Warrior Job.
• Only Gladiators and Pugilists can have the Thief Job.
• Only Conjurers and Thaumaturges can have the White Mage Job.
• Only Thaumaturges and Conjurers can have the Black Mage Job.
• Only Conjurers and Gladiators can have the Red Mage Job.
• Only Gladiators and Conjurers can have the Paladin Job.
• Only Marauders and Thaumaturges can have the Dark Knight Job.

New problem. All the Jobs now have classes, but because there are 10 Jobs to 7 Classes we have an imbalance. The only fix for this imbalance would be to add 4 additional Jobs beyond the ones listed above. Doesn't sound bad, right??

With 14 Jobs to 7 Classes things are balanced and the game is ready for launch! YAY!!

However the case, to maintain that balance, any time a new class or job is introduced in the game a corresponding number of classes and/or jobs MUST be introduced in order to maintain the balance. So if the Development Team wants to give us a new Class, they have to come up with two new Jobs for that Class. If they want to give us a new Job, they have come up with a new Class and an additional Job to maintain the balance. This is in addition to balancing all the skills and abilities of the new Jobs and/or Classes. Seems like a lot of extra work just to keep people from being axe-wielding White Mages.

---OR---

The Development Team can have no restrictions and let any Class play as any Job (mind you I'm not talking about unlocking Jobs, I'm talking about playing them). Then players (individually and as a community) will have a chance to experiment and decide what they want to play, both solo and in a party. Also this will allow the Development Team to concentrate on balancing skills instead of the number of specializations a particular Class may or may not have access to when introducing new Classes and/or Jobs.

So I understand where people are coming from when they say that only certain classes should only be certain jobs. But enforcing that in game, with code, brings its own set of complications.

Wow....

In my head I was thinking 2 jobs per class (I'll give you a link) but this is really an interesting thought.

[BloodLotus]

I asked where it said Jobs were being implemented to fix Class Uniqueness, it doesn't.

"based on clearly identified class roles."

Doesn't sound like Class Uniqueness to you? I thought you'd understand since you're so fond of word games.

[Draco]

Cairdeas, I guess I am not understanding your post. In your post, you are assuming that Lancer is going to unlock Dragoon, and Archer will unlock Ranger. I do not see how they would ever have a lancer, and a dragoon, or a archer, and a ranger in the game at the same time. The only way that would make sense is if Dragoon was designed to replace Lancer @ Rank 50, and you are not able to Rank Lancer any higher. Basically, a promotion system. I did not read anywhere in the post that he mentioned a promotion system, so I would pretty much rule that out. Also, you mentioned at the bottom of your post that if you want to play a Thief/Marauder, you should be able to. I did not read anything that mentioned a main job/sub job system. Again, I may have just missunderstood your post.

[Vesperia]

NO RESTRICTIONS

LET ANY JOB BE USED ON ANY CLASS

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BloodLotus]

Cairdeas, I guess I am not understanding your post. In your post, you are assuming that Lancer is going to unlock Dragoon, and Archer will unlock Ranger. I do not see how they would ever have a lancer, and a dragoon, or a archer, and a ranger in the game at the same time. The only way that would make sense is if Dragoon was designed to replace Lancer @ Rank 50, and you are not able to Rank Lancer any higher. Basically, a promotion system. I did not read anywhere in the post that he mentioned a promotion system, so I would pretty much rule that out. Also, you mentioned at the bottom of your post that if you want to play a Thief/Marauder, you should be able to. I did not read anything that mentioned a main job/sub job system. Again, I may have just missunderstood your post.

I don't know about him, but I'm using Lancer and Dragoon as examples because I like those classes/jobs I had one in 11.

But the names of the Jobs aren't meant to be taken literally. They might not have any name we know of.

Using rift and their souls setup as an example....

http://www.riftgame.com/en/classes/index.php

Pretend Warrior Cleric Rogue and Mage are the classes we have now; Gladiator, Lancer etc.

Now imagine the Souls (Champion, Purifier, Nightblade and Elementalist) are the equivalent of Jobs.

Cairdeas wants to be able to use skills from Elementalist as a Warrior.