Please do not lock Jobs to the Weapon Class that unlocks them.

[Dubont]

Paladins in Past FF's have all be able to use Bows.

Your point? Paladin wasn't good with a bow, despite being able to use them. Paladin's main 2 weapons were Sword+Shield and staff. Everything else was subpar and essentially useless. In some FF's, black mage could use a sword....but they should never use a sword. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. Stop trying to justify being a gimp.

[Jinko]

I think some of you are missing the point here, allow me to try and explain:

Say for example MRD at R30 unlocks DRK as a Job. Now DRK as a Job comes with attack bonus, reduced defence and an increase in magic potency for dark magic. It also has it's own skills like Bloodweapon and Souleater. Now I can take my DRK job and place it on the class MRD but what Cairdeas is trying to say is that the Job should not be restricted to just MRD.

Nobody is missing the point we already said that

1) You could gain traits in a certain job to equip a job specific weapon, scythe, g.sword etc
2) DRK may not be added until a more suitable class is released.

I agree with this I do not want DRK to be restricted to using a G. Axe, there would be no harm in allowing you to equip a sword (GLA) and then placing the DRK job on top of it to create a sword wielding DRK. Or when new classes get implemented like G. Sword or War Scythe I should be able to level those up as you do now but place my DRK Job on top of it.

There is no harm in only that you are further watering the mechanics of the game down, the whole point of these jobs are to add a needed sense of class purpose and role definition, being allowed to add DRK to any job goes completely against that.

[Judge_Xero]

/sigh
im still waiting for an MMO where i can choose to make my lancer a Thunder nuking lancer with crap def/eva and high dex/int........
....... why cant i has that?

I'd like to start off with saying. You can Dread, it just isn't very good.

THREAD SUMMARY

All Classes being able to equip any weapon (Bad Idea/Penalty System and Stats will not be in favor)
Specialized Classes gaining access to different weapons (Good Idea/Would make an awesome Trait)
Specialized Classes should be linked to the closest resembling class (Pug/Monk...Gladiator/Theif...)(Mage/Mage...good luck being a Black Mage without getting Elemental Spells from Conj though)
Dragoon using a Bow (Bad Idea)
Getting to do Quests to unlock Advance Class Skills (Good Idea, although you don't get to level a new class from R1, it will be fun doing quests to gain new skills instead of just Static Leves)

[Cairdeas]

Your point? Paladin wasn't good with a bow, despite being able to use them. Paladin's main 2 weapons were Sword+Shield and staff. Everything else was subpar and essentially useless. In some FF's, black mage could use a sword....but they should never use a sword. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. Stop trying to justify being a gimp.

Your point is "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" That specifically is how you should look at the System. The game shouldn't limit you from those choices. You yourself should after debating with yourself if the choice you made is valid, or if it is counter productive.

Again the GAME shouldn't force you into those holes, you should yourself, or by player opinion. The same way subjobs did in FFXI.

[Dubont]

Your point is "Just because you can doesn't mean you should" That specifically is how you should look at the System. The game shouldn't limit you from those choices. You yourself should after debating with yourself if the choice you made is valid, or if it is counter productive.

Again the GAME shouldn't force you into those holes, you should yourself, or by player opinion. The same way subjobs did in FFXI.

this isn't FFXI. This game, FFXIV, is a different game with different mechanics. If you want to play a whitemage, you shouldn't be able to use MRD (a class with no magical skills at all) to unlock it (A class with the best healing skills in the FF universe). This, again, goes back to Fire Emblem. Mages couldn't unlock Assassins. Thieves couldn't unlock Sages. It. Doesn't. Work. Again, stop trying to justify being a gimp.

[Dreadnought]

I'd like to start off with saying. You can Dread, it just isn't very good.

THREAD SUMMARY

All Classes being able to equip any weapon (Bad Idea/Penalty System and Stats will not be in favor)
Specialized Classes gaining access to different weapons (Good Idea/Would make an awesome Trait)
Specialized Classes should be linked to the closest resembling class (Pug/Monk...Gladiator/Theif...)(Mage/Mage...good luck being a Black Mage without getting Elemental Spells from Conj though)
Dragoon using a Bow (Bad Idea)
Getting to do Quests to unlock Advance Class Skills (Good Idea, although you don't get to level a new class from R1, it will be fun doing quests to gain new skills instead of just Static Leves)

i know it isnt good, my point though was for the ability to have a fair trade off of stats/skills in order to make my lightning lancer actually effective, not uber or equal to a BLM or LNC but not in-effective in nuking/attacking when solo or even partying.
i just dont get why that fair trade off doesnt seem to exist in any game. balancing?

[Cairdeas]

this isn't FFXI. This game, FFXIV, is a different game with different mechanics. If you want to play a whitemage, you shouldn't be able to use MRD (a class with no magical skills at all) to unlock it (A class with the best healing skills in the FF universe). This, again, goes back to Fire Emblem. Mages couldn't unlock Assassins. Thieves couldn't unlock Sages. It. Doesn't. Work. Again, stop trying to justify being a gimp.

Stop putting words into my mouth.

I didn't say Marauder would unlock White Mage. Most likely Conjurer Would. But once you unlock that Job and have it equipped you shouldn't be forced to stay using that weapon. IE you can then switch to Thaumaturge as your weapon and still be a white mage.

[Lerris]

Paladins in Past FF's have all be able to use Bows.

Using past FFs as an example of the way things should be is a flawed argument, as FF is not, and never has been, an internally consistent series.

Allowing this flexibility will require a lot more testing and balancing than limiting them... perhaps if they haven't designed it this way, they can consider opening job/class combinations in the future.

[Focant]

I don't know who said it but I agree that, ultimately, we need to just wait and see. We're trying to define an entire job system on a few vague sentences. It doesn't really do us any good to be making suggestions on it yet. What it turns out to be could very well be entirely different from what we're assuming now.

Feels almost like scuffling over a slice of bread only to have it stolen by a bird. In the end it doesn't really matter. Should probably save our suggestions for when they can actually be taken with any level of credibility.

Also, whoa, Lerris from Anon? Is that you!? O.o

I may be confusing you with someone else but if not long time no see.

[Volsung]

No a weapon does not define a job. A weapon makes you a class with its own abilities, and you have abilities from other classes that used other weapons. You play a role you decide by equipping your chosen abilities. Wanna play Gladiator (sword or dagger user) and tank? equip curing, shield, and hate skills. Want to purely DD? equip weaponskills and abilities like blindside.

Thats not to say you can't do a little of everything, and that is where the problem is for a lot of people. The role you play is chosen by you, and with so many options it drives people crazy. Can a Conjurer equip shield and hate and curing abilities and want to tank? Sure, but it will not be as effective as a gladiator because it will not have proper gear benefits and timers etc.

From here on out is all speculation and hope
With this class system I'm hoping its like this-
-rank pugilist and gladiator to 25,
-opens the thf job quest,
-Perform quest and have access to thf job,
-Play gladiator and equip thf job no you will not be able to take certain abilities from other classes, but through quests you could obtain abilities specific to thf job only.
-I personally don't see a problem with equipping jobs on any class, so long as proper penalties and bonuses are appropriated.

Red mage/gladiator would have a little magic and stronger sword strikes than red mage/thaumaturge but /thaum would have better magic. Using the red mage job would take away stuff like ancient magic, but give new red mage only abilities such as haste/refresh through quests. Red mage/pug would use pugilist abilities/weaponskills, some specific abilities from thaum and conj more than likely, and then those specific to red mage job abilities.

Remember they might not even be jobs as we know them, it could be that each weapon class will have a few jobs and theyre very generic. I don't want this to happen but it could just be like lancer gets three jobs, DD single, DD AoE, and status changer(enhancement/enfeeb). Again I would like to avoid that and hope it is classic FF jobs.