WAR and Wrath: Important Mechanics Discussed.

[Faction]

Your entire premise is predicated upon the idea that the enmity generation increase from Defiance and Shield Oath is only enough to offset the reduction in damage dealt, which is not true. It may not be 2x like it used to be, but it is most definitely more than enough to offset the reduction in damage dealt. I know this because I've tanked while in Defiance and while outside of Defiance; I generate noticeably more enmity while in Defiance than while outside of it.

Um yeah sorry that's not enough. Some of us have actually tested this. You're gonna have to do better than anecdotes.

But then again this IS the person who tried to claim that Warrior cooldowns were as good as paladins due to "the superior uptime of bloodbath" so I don't expect much.

I wouldn't be surprised if it were actually a 2x multiplier still, because that would be a 36% increase in total enmity generation. A 75% increase in enmity generation is a 19.1% increase.

That's not how Defiance or Shield Oath ever worked. What they did is modify the enmity modifier of skills, meaning for example: Butcher's Block generated 10x damage as enmity instead of 5x. Any skill without an enmity modifier became 2x. This was 100% more enmity over not using defiance or shield oath, not "36%." You don't need an online calculator to figure that one out.

Assuming that defiance is currently is a flat percentage boost of 50% (it could be more or less, who knows? It's certainly not 2x, or even 1.5x, though), defiance and shield oath would be roughly an 11% enmity boost over not using defiance or shield oath - potentially less for Warriors due to how maim interacts with defiance. My anecdotal testing using the ingame enmity bars as indicators has shown defiance and no-defiance to be almost entirely equal to the naked eye. It wouldn't be a stretch to say that perhaps the bar has breaking points that don't communicate such a small boost very well, or perhaps the percentage mod is actually lower. Either way, anecdotes are anecdotes and yours don't mean any more than mine.

Even being anecdotal, if you had played beta you'd see a night and day difference between phase 3 and now.

[Leiron]

But then again this IS the person who tried to claim that Warrior cooldowns were as good as paladins due to "the superior uptime of bloodbath" so I don't expect much.

Are you sure you are remembering the right person?

[Faction]

Are you sure you are remembering the right person?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...62#post1210862

[Taemek]

Do you guys think he (Yoshi) could be implying WAR isn't being played right execution wise? Like skill usage, combos, situational reaction, etc. Obvs. devs know something we don't unless he's just trolling.

-Just realized I posted in wrong thread..derp-

Yes thats exactly what I think he means.

Not only that but the game is just over 1 month old out of live release, no one has cleared any of the end game content OR farmed it enough to have true comparitive side by side tests. Most people are using hyperthectical numbers and basic math to try and support it and that was before they discovered it was a mutli-roll algorithmic system where most people where likely allocating stats incorrectly, myself included.

Truth is, there is just as many bad Paladins who can't tank as there is Warriors and it is clear that Coil is a challenge for anyone who steps in to it, Paladin or Warrior, Scholar or White Mage, it doesn't matter, it is still a challenge and if Paladin made everything so trivial like most will try and make it to be, why has no one cleared the content yet? That we know of anyway.

[Leiron]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...62#post1210862

TO my understanding, Kitru appeared merely ot disagree with you on the premise that the Warrior CD's were as bad as you stated.
not that they were as good, but merely that they weren't as horrible as one believed.

I try not to assume the worst of everyone is all.
Nice hat btw, where from?

[oceanlord]

TO my understanding, Kitru appeared merely ot disagree with you on the premise that the Warrior CD's were as bad as you stated.
not that they were as good, but merely that they weren't as horrible as one believed.

I try not to assume the worst of everyone is all.
Nice hat btw, where from?

miners hat from armorer

[Casper]

It's been demonstrated to be true. Shield oath is not a 2x or even 1.5x multiplier on enmity.

Do you have links to these studies ? I only remember the ones done by valk in beta 3 and have not seen any other since then, would love some hard facts on this. Thanks

[Terabyt3]

Do you have links to these studies ? I only remember the ones done by valk in beta 3 and have not seen any other since then, would love some hard facts on this. Thanks

i think Vlaks did an updated one and posted here a few weeks ago to show that he thinks shield oath is actuallly broken and the enmity multiplier doesn't work.

From what I briefly read he tested it using same race, same stats, same gear against someone not in shield oath and someone in sword oath. Both times the "not shield oath" pulled hate.

Search the tank role forums I think it was in there?!

Edit: Quick search pulled this but this wasn't the post i was referring to from Vlaks http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Enmity-Broken

Edit2: This is the one I was on about originally http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...th#post1320882

[Casper]

snip

Oh okay thanks, i saw these two threads when they popped, just thought some more thorough testing had been conducted as these thread just say basically "hey guys stuff seems to have change somehow and formulas are different. See ya !" ^^

[MBTL90]

No wonder op thinks he's such a good tank - the paladin tank opposite him is trying to tank with 4.7k health. I think I had that much after like 3 pieces of darklight. I just think it's hilarious how op just doesn't get the point other people are trying to tell him. I'm going to try again, although I doubt it will get through.

No one is claiming that warriors aren't capable of tanking coil (although turn four double dreadnaughts seem to be a huge problem).

Let me repeat that: NO ONE IS SAYING THAT YOU CAN'T TANK COIL, OR THAT WARS AREN'T VIABLE!!! Posting screenshots of yourself clearing turns 1/2 doesn't blow us away - we recognize that warriors can in fact tank these instances.

Edit: Just realized in both screenshots, tank had death sickness. Still, seems undergeared for coil.