WAR and Wrath: Important Mechanics Discussed.

[Junk4Brains]

I see from your profile that you are talking about early-game, where WAR is really fine. That has never been the issue. As you get into endgame content, WAR suffers immensely. Review information on Titan HM and BC. There are quite a few good threads here breaking down the math of how WAR completely falls apart.

Also, everything does need to be balanced. Persistent games have persistent rewards. If you want challenge, there are difficulty settings and commensurate rewards. Furthermore, when you play a team game, your gimped choice doesn't require more skill on your part, it just requires more skill on the part of your team. That you can be carried does not speak to your skill at all, nor does it make anyone want to bring your gimpy arse to the difficult content.

No, I've actually done up to Coil 3. A bit of Coil 4. I started that character but my neighbor has FFXIV and we play a shared character.
And yeah, sometimes the challenge IS the reward. Why does everyone always need to be reward for every little thing. Why can't people just enjoy a challenge just for the sake of being challenged. And while I agree that it takes a good player to bring the best out in PLD and a good party to bring out the best in WAR. That does no way shape or form imply the WAR is being carried. WAR isn't gimp so much as it has a lower margin for error. I die just as much because of my own mistakes as well as mistakes of my other party members. With a PLD it just means your party can afford to make more mistakes... and as such a PLD is 'carrying' the party. A WAR isn't build to 'carry' the party but everyone has to do their fair share to succeed. And some people are just too accustomed to lazy play and its just easier say WAR is gimp rather than adjust their playstyle than look to where they could have improved their own performance. But as a 'team game' what makes or breaks a party is not how well each person functions individually but how they function together.

Like I don't get why so many WAR's I've read on here want a 'stone skin effect' on their Inner Beast when all you have to do is COMMUNICATE with your healers. Just say. "Hey I'm about to use Inner Beast, swap out our next heal for stoneskin." And tada..you basically get the same effect. Ultimately though, funny as it sounds, PLD makes WAR stronger and WAR makes a PLD stronger. So the two tank classes will always be stronger working together than trying to out do each other. Comparatively yes, PLD has the advantage but objectively both tanks have their means being effective in all content.

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

[RapBreon]

Like I don't get why so many WAR's I've read on here want a 'stone skin effect' on their Inner Beast when all you have to do is COMMUNICATE with your healers. Just say. "Hey I'm about to use Inner Beast, swap out our next heal for stoneskin." And tada..you basically get the same effect. Ultimately though, funny as it sounds, PLD makes WAR stronger and WAR makes a PLD stronger. So the two tank classes will always be stronger working together than trying to out do each other. Comparatively yes, PLD has the advantage but objectively both tanks have their means being effective in all content.

I'm not trying to spark anything here, but you either haven't healed or tanked Coil's 'tank purge' phases. Aka Double dread (or even a 4x dread) or a billion stack Caudacus. In these situations, a tank death more often than not happens within a global. Both tanks at full health with no CD's are equally susceptible to this. Healers literally have to spam their heals (even if the tank is at full health) to avoid this, cancelling your cast shouldn't happen in these situations. The difference is the Paladin can rotate MORE cooldowns that are also MORE effective.

So, communicating your usage of IB amounts to nothing, though I have serious doubts a Warrior can MT T4, I'm always on adds spamming mah overpower. Any other content that requires low or moderate tank attention communicating is helpful, but usually that content isn't stressful enough to worry about a wasted global.

Also to OP; stacking CD's is the quickest way to ensure you die in the next burst phase guaranteed.

[VahnValbosce]

Also to OP; stacking CD's is the quickest way to ensure you die in the next burst phase guaranteed.

All these replies are funny.

Because it's been our 10th attempt at Turn 4 Coil and we're already at last phase, just need to sort out the aggro and we've got it down. I hold my wrath and blow ALL my GCD's when I'm tanking the multiple mob waves, and it helps out the healers a ton. Not having a problem whatsoever in Turn 4 Coil. Only problem with our group not downing Turn 4 is not enough DPS, that's it.

Will be back here with screenshot when Turn 4 Coil is down. Expect to happen within the next few days as we're getting a geared BLM to step in for our SMN who doesn't have very much gear.

I'd really hate to heal someone who actually blows all of their cooldowns at once like you posit you're supposed to.

Ah who I am kidding, it's not like Warrior CD's even make a difference.

Expect to see Screenshot of me downing Turn 4 Coil within the next few days. (Already have a Screenshot of Paradigm that beat it with WAR, different FC on my server)

[Faction]

All these replies are funny.

Because it's been our 10th attempt at Turn 4 Coil and we're already at last phase, just need to sort out the aggro and we've got it down. I hold my wrath and blow ALL my GCD's when I'm tanking the multiple mob waves, and it helps out the healers a ton. Not having a problem whatsoever in Turn 4 Coil. Only problem with our group not downing Turn 4 is not enough DPS, that's it.

Will be back here with screenshot when Turn 4 Coil is down. Expect to happen within the next few days as we're getting a geared BLM to step in for our SMN who doesn't have very much gear.



Expect to see Screenshot of me downing Turn 4 Coil within the next few days. (Already have a Screenshot of Paradigm that beat it with WAR, different FC on my server)

And? That doesn't make what you're doing any less stupid. And I'm well into coil, thanks. Don't act like it's anything special. Do you actually think it warrants mentioning twice and that it immediately means that anything you say is gospel?

Considering the Warrior class is pretty much just a sponge that stands around while hoping it's healers can carry it through boss fights, you're certainly not proving anything. This is bolded now randomly.

Here is more bold text.

[VahnValbosce]

immediately means that anything you say is gospel?]

Then give me a good reason to listen to anything you have to say at all? Because I'm not going to. The most you do is is whine and cry on the forums about such a hard life you have as a Warrior, do yourself a favor and re-roll and stop the complaining.

Darkhearts like you really just bring the community down, and it's my fault for expecting there to be anything better on forums. As far as you're concerned, you see the Absolute negative in everything, literally everything. If WAR manages to down Turn 4 Coil, your response is that the healers carried them. It's just really gross and an ugly attitude that you fail to see yet you propagate and disseminate toward the community at large as being wholeheartedly acceptable. I'm just glad I'm not like you.

[Faction]

If WAR manages to down Turn 4 Coil, your response is that the healers carried them.

Correction: carried ME. Because that's what happens.

You might think of yourself as some kind of superhero-esque Warrior role model with a resume full of amazing accomplishments as well as hypothetical accomplishments that make you infallible to the degree that they need to be bolded. Luckily my head isn't that far up my ass and I can actually understand that the things I do in Coil do not offer any tangible benefit to my survival and it's 100% the healers keeping me up. That would be even worse if I use all of my cooldowns at once for some reason.

But hey, anyone who's actually able to be objective about class balance rather than pretending everything is just perfect is a "Darkheart." Whatever the hell that means??? Am I meant to be insulted?

[Amyas]

it's 100% the healers keeping me up.

So do plds not rely on healers 'keeping them up' now?
Damn those OP paladins!! Oh, how I hate them!

This is absolutely not true. A PLD in Sword Oath spamming Rage of Halone combo will ALWAYS pull off of any tank in the game assuming relatively equal gear. It is the highest enmity generation per second in the game. As a WAR there is no way you could hold aggro off of a paladin in sword oath spamming RoH.

In fact, this is the only reason PLD Dps isn't very viable as an off-tank: they can't do it without pulling aggro.

I want to test this out now. I thought the sword oath only buffed auto-attacks too, how would that help your combo out? Would it really pull off a pld in equal gear with shield oath spamming RoH combo? Or a war in defiance spamming nothing but Butcher's block combo? I need some tangible answers D:

[VahnValbosce]

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

Amen, brother.

[Anienai]

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

Testify!!!!!!

[Taemek]

No, I've actually done up to Coil 3. A bit of Coil 4. I started that character but my neighbor has FFXIV and we play a shared character.
And yeah, sometimes the challenge IS the reward. Why does everyone always need to be reward for every little thing. Why can't people just enjoy a challenge just for the sake of being challenged. And while I agree that it takes a good player to bring the best out in PLD and a good party to bring out the best in WAR. That does no way shape or form imply the WAR is being carried. WAR isn't gimp so much as it has a lower margin for error. I die just as much because of my own mistakes as well as mistakes of my other party members. With a PLD it just means your party can afford to make more mistakes... and as such a PLD is 'carrying' the party. A WAR isn't build to 'carry' the party but everyone has to do their fair share to succeed. And some people are just too accustomed to lazy play and its just easier say WAR is gimp rather than adjust their playstyle than look to where they could have improved their own performance. But as a 'team game' what makes or breaks a party is not how well each person functions individually but how they function together.

Like I don't get why so many WAR's I've read on here want a 'stone skin effect' on their Inner Beast when all you have to do is COMMUNICATE with your healers. Just say. "Hey I'm about to use Inner Beast, swap out our next heal for stoneskin." And tada..you basically get the same effect. Ultimately though, funny as it sounds, PLD makes WAR stronger and WAR makes a PLD stronger. So the two tank classes will always be stronger working together than trying to out do each other. Comparatively yes, PLD has the advantage but objectively both tanks have their means being effective in all content.

Right now to me there are only 2 kinds of WAR.
The kind that spend all their time on forums QQ'ing about it and the kind that spend most of their time in the game actually enjoying the class they play. But as history has shown it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Can't say that is a day I am particularly looking forward to as the challenge WAR provides is probably the only...well not only but one of the few things keeping me interested in the game.

Well said Junk and good luck in turn 4.