Good Vs Bad Player

[Zumi]

How are you adventuring by learning about everything in advance?
You know like playing a single player game and learning how to beat the game before actually attempting it to the best of you ability first?

It's called playing the most efficient way possible.

[Sixmp]

It's called playing the most efficient way possible.

So how does that make you a better player? You are going in with the answer for every puzzle that someone else told you?

[Yves_Gomes]

Yeah. I do ask about any tricks before going into a boss, but watching a guide would be a straight up spoiler - too boring.

[Rochetm]

30 years of MMOingt

lolWUT?

I don't watch videos and never have problems. Yet people who "know" the fights fail over and over. Sorry but "doing your homework" is actually "copying other peoples work" and in no way makes you any better.

These games are not designed so that only min/max players can complete them. If you really need better than AF gear for AK then you suck. Same goes for Ifrit... Darklight requirement for ifrit cracks me up.

[Brutallyn]

to some extend for the adventure, But, the dungeons-trials in ff14 are time limited.

the other day i did Gaurda normal with a pug. 2 of the 4 had no clue what the fight would be like. it took a good 40 minutes for them to actually catch up on the mechanics, and in the end we won with 10 mins to spare. so it took us 80 mins, and 10plus wipes.
that's not an adventure anymore imo.

Brut

[JayCommon]

Hopefully there will be other people out there with the same desire to have fun exploring the fight with no expectations of perfection.

This is how I have the most fun. The problem is, when you get to endgame these type of parties (through duty finder) are too few and far between. All throughout the main story, any time I had to use DF I got grouped with a group of first-timers. We all shared this same basic philosophy. "Let's give this a try, if we die so be it. Regroup and try again." Watching YouTube videos on fights really doesn't help me that much anyway, because there is always extra things you will learn by just actively participating in said fight. I have yet to see a YouTube video that explains every facet of a fight, they normally just go over basics. The intricacies of each fight need to be learned through trial and error.

Towards this, to answer the OP, I have a decent example of the difference between good/bad players. I orchestrated a Hydra group last night. After we had a group of 8 people, we found out that 7 of us had never done the fight before. The 8th person who had done it before had only done it from a healer's perspective so he didn't have much insight on what we needed to. He just knew, "Heal and stack middle when Hydra goes there". Those are very vague instructions for anyone who has fought Hydra. There is A LOT more to that fight than that. So I said, "It's ok, if we die we will learn from it and try again." After 2 tries most of the group had it down, except for one summoner who kept dying and not moving out of AOE quick enough, not stacking middle quick enough, not helping with the wyvern adds quick enough... Basically just not contributing enough. Although I knew it was happening, I didn't lose my cool. We died 5 times before I offered the summoner any advice. We died another 4 times before the summoner said he/she was experiencing lag spikes in the fight. We died another 2 times after that before the summoner quit the group, admitted he/she was holding us down.

I picked up a first-timer Dragoon to round out our party, explained the DRG the fight and we beat Hydra on our first attempt. It was his first experience with Hydra after we had all just ran it about 10-11 times, dying every time because of one person. After the fight, the DRG says "Sheesh thanks for the easy mode Hydra run!" I couldn't help but laugh

Good/bad players shouldn't be characterized by whether or not they can watch a damn video online. However, when there is easily enough trial and error for everyone to understand what's expected from them in a fight, and still can't pull it off, then you can start calling a player bad. A prepared fighter isn't always a good one.

[PsychologyPhD]

This game uses a "Job" system. So your character is one of the jobs implemented in the system. Like any job you have to know what you are doing, even if it is your first time/day, you are expected have some knowledge of what your job details. There are people who are good at their job and people who are bad at their job. Knowing the optimal rotation, priority, or mechanics of your job in any situation is what makes a person great at their job. On a side note doing research is never a bad thing! Research is what makes the world go round and the only thing putting money in my pocket !

[Rivienne]

The problem here is that you have a few completely different types of players:

1) video games are for fun, adventure, and solving problems. No matter how many times you fail along the way.
2) video games are a sport, and sports are about efficiency and winning, and having the minimum number of mistakes and failure along the way.

A small subset of the latter camp seems unwilling to accept that there is another camp at all. There are good players, and bad players. And good players play like them, as a sport, for efficient, perfect, wins. Bad players are anyone else. If you aren't playing like them, you are doing it wrong. Period. If you can't learn as fast as them, you are bad. If you didn't research, you are bad. If you want to explore/have an adventure/care about the story, you are bad. If you do anything that isn't the way they want to play, you are inconsiderate of their play time.

Problem is, the sports mentality is fine in this game if you keep it to the others who are of the same mindset. But by using the DF they are intentionally putting themselves with group 1 over and over again making them very visible to the overall community. Most sports minded groups who are doing it "right" so to speak, are in their own team running towards coil, if they aren't already there, minding their own business.

But there is this subset of the sports minded folks, and they are pushing themselves onto the former group via DF and then claiming the other are simply bad, wrong etc. and should get out of their game if they can't be bothered to do it "right".

I don't believe it is actually as prevalent as it looks right now, rather if you have 3000 of these players at a time, out of 300K total players, but they currently are constantly running end game duty finder, it will appear to everyone else that they are the norm. In reality, most players aren't at 50 yet (or are just getting there now), and most players who are at 50 are happily minding their own business.

Anyway this is just my current take on the subject.

[Pathetic]

Only thing I bring to the fight is proper gear and how the fight mechanic go I learn as I go .

[Wobble]

Well said.