Some surprising data in regards to SMN dps vs BLM dps

[glim]

Pet attacks are not free. They are substracted from your damage total. Scathe does much more damage than a Ruin 2 for that reason, and in between scathing you have casting opportunities to hang on to procs like firestarter or thundercloud. BLM mobile damage is not BAD.

I play both BLM and SMN and I don't buy all this doom and gloom garbage about BLM. BLM has problems, but mobility is not one of them.

you're taking it way out of context, what I meant by free is that you don't need to spend anything for the damage to apply, you compared scathe and pet attacks, when you should have compared scathe vs pet attacks + ruin II

[Crevox]

Except you don't understand that the parser is horribly bugged for SMN. Zero based dots (Bio and Bio II) are EXTREMELY inaccurate. They often report as 2-5x the damage they should, and sometimes only 9-10 damage. Contagion, Bane, and Shadow Flare are also not tracked. More stuff as well, but shrug, it's enough.

And no, the latest update did not fix it. Don't ask. I've spoken to icehunter personally on this issue.

[pandabearcat]

Oh my god can we close this thread already.

We've already established that they do essentially the same dps.

Please either argue the methodology or the math involved, not the goddamn parser.

I'm sick of the parser.

[HitaruHotaru]

Every mmo in existence has issue with pet classes.
If SMN truly is higher dps than blm, they'll get the nef bat soon enough.

I'm leveling up SMN to do my own testing.

[jcw005]

If anything, some simple testing has shown the numbers to be even more skewed. That list of Astral Fire potency is wrong. I went and tested this on my BLM, both with and without gear (it made no difference). I took 10 samples of Fire I without Astral Fire, and under Astral Fires I, II, and III. Averaging the values, these are the potency modifiers I found, slightly rounded to account for variance between min/max damage:
No Astral Fire: x1.0
Astral Fire I: x1.4
Astral Fire II: x1.6
Astral Fire III: x1.8

As that chart listed an incorrect, flat 2.0 modifier for Astral Fire, the calculations for BLM potency should actually be lower than previously stated.

[pandabearcat]

As that chart listed an incorrect, flat 2.0 modifier for Astral Fire, the calculations for BLM potency should actually be lower than previously stated.

Thats interesting.

Can someone tell me the #of Fire1's a BLM can output (using DL or roughly equivalent "end game" gear) before running out of mana? Thanks.

Also, if astral fire reduces blizz3 damage?

[Kenji1134]

# of Fire1's you can do at endgame... ~5.
Offhand, 638 mana for Fire 1 in AF3, ~3.6k mana, so roughly 5.6 Fires.
Most of the time I will get off 5, and use the remaining MP for Blizz 3, with enough left over for Thunder 2 before a regen tick.

If you have a bard running manasong, then you can probably get off 6, maybe even 7 if you get a few firestarter and thundercloud procs to make room for extra MP ticks... but sometimes that ends poorly as you might lose count of your fires and end up not having enough MP for Blizz 3, then have to transpose, wait for a tick, then throw 2 Blizz 1, or a Blizz 3 for the quick Fire 3 switch.

[Azoryl]

hmm people think the rotation is hard?

Thunder III.. Fire III... Fire Fire Fire Fire Fire... Bliz III .. Thunder III repeat.... Popping Fire procs and thunder procs when needed. The best is the switch from AF 3 to UI 3 is quick when using Bliz III and Fire III.

[pandabearcat]

Okay, then 5 Fire 1's with a 40% (right?) chance of proccing fire is on average 2 fire IIIs.

So the "burn rotation" is then 5 fire 1's, 2 fire 3's, lasting 7 GCDs, or 17.5 seconds.

Then we Blizz 3 (3.5 seconds) and thunder 2 (3.0 seconds), then fire 3 (3.5 seconds) for a full rotation of 27.5 seconds.

Thunder II lasts 21 seconds so 7 ticks for thundercloud. Chance to proc per tick is 5%, so average # of procs during one burn rotation is 0.35 (its harder if we want to predict the actual expected intervals between thunder IIs, but this suffices). We want an absolute minimum average, so we ignore possible additional procs, and say we increase our dps by 1/3 of a thundercloud proc, as well as increase the duration of our "burn rotation" by 1/3 of a GCD, or ~0.83 seconds. At most, a thunder II proc will grant us 3-4 additional ticks of thunder (since we refresh it anyway to allow blizz 3 to tick, correct me on this if i'm wrong), so we add in 3/3 ~ 1 tick to thundercloud proc.

So now we have

1 Fire III - no astral fire, so it does 220 potency
5 Fire I - full astral fire, so it does 150*5*1.8 = 1350
2 Fire III - full astral fire, does 220*2*1.8 = 792 potency
1 Blizz III - no umbral ice, does 220 = 220 potency
1 Thunder II - 50 potency.
7 ticks of thunder II - 35*7 = 245
1/3 proc of thundercloud: 290?/3 = 97
1 "tick" of thundercloud added thunder = 35

Total: 3009 potency over 28.33 seconds, or ~106.21 pps.

Yes that does seem low doesn't it. I did not add in Raging strikes, because i was too lazy to do the analysis over 3 minutes.

Consequently, if we remove raging strikes altogether from the summoner rotation, it does 120.5 pps.

So on the low end of BLM dps, it does 88% of the dps of summoner, or ~13.5% lower dps. Again this is the lowest end BLM dps, with procs it shoots up and down much more. Enough to maybe warrant a buff, but not the 30-50% lower dps that people are claiming with parsers.

[EasymodeX]

1 Fire III - no astral fire, so it does 220 potency
5 Fire I - full astral fire, so it does 150*5*1.8 = 1350
2 Fire III - full astral fire, does 220*2*1.8 = 792 potency
1 Blizz III - no umbral ice, does 220 = 220 potency
1 Thunder II - 50 potency.
7 ticks of thunder II - 35*7 = 245
1/3 proc of thundercloud: 290?/3 = 97
1 "tick" of thundercloud added thunder = 35

Total: 3009 potency over 28.33 seconds, or ~106.21 pps.

Edit: Nvm, F3/B3/T hardcasts are longer.

Do you refill all your mana with just the ~6.5 seconds in Umbral Ice 3 stance?