Not being able to buy single items from a stack on the marketward.

[JWag12787]

Ok you go ahead and sell your 12 eggs, 20 cookies and 100 shards separately.... oh wait, you only have 40 retainer slots to sell with. What do you do now?

I plan to.
If you don't want them, find someone who selling less per stack.
Seriously though. It's how the market works. If we don't want to sell them separate, then we aren't going to. It means we don't want to.
Like I said, I usually sell them in small enough stacks that they are smaller than the average. But I digress, as people will never be happy w/ a free market economy.


Felix: Thanks for proving my point.
I want to sell them in groups. This has nothing to do with the retainer slots.
If I want to sell them individually, I will, but I won't be selling them as fast.

[bwalker36]

I plan to.
If you don't want them, find someone who selling less per stack.
Seriously though. It's how the market works. If we don't want to sell them separate, then we aren't going to. It means we don't want to.
Like I said, I usually sell them in small enough stacks that they are smaller than the average. But I digress, as people will never be happy w/ a free market economy.

It would be nice to be able to list the 50 and then fill in a box and say allow people to by stacks of 5. However at the same time I consider that only to be a qol issue and have no problems if they do not do it. I'm like you I list in small stacks for slightly more than current bulk listings. Has worked well so far.

[Felix7007]

I plan to.
If you don't want them, find someone who selling less per stack.
Seriously though. It's how the market works. If we don't want to sell them separate, then we aren't going to. It means we don't want to.
Like I said, I usually sell them in small enough stacks that they are smaller than the average. But I digress, as people will never be happy w/ a free market economy.

Ok do some math. Are you ready for this? if you sold 12 eggs, 20 cookies and 100 crystals one at a time, you would need 132 retainer slots. YOU ONLY HAVE 40 TO SELL WITH. So no, in fact you can't go ahead and sell them individually if you wanted to.

[Bahamuts_Slayer]

Ok do some math. Are you ready for this? if you sold 12 eggs, 20 cookies and 100 crystals one at a time, you would need 132 retainer slots. YOU ONLY HAVE 40 TO SELL WITH. So no, in fact you can't go ahead and sell them individually if you wanted to.

Seriously? Do you not understand that she doesn't WANT to sell individually?

[Bizzybeast]

yes, we have the option, but its implementation is so retarded its not even funny, and the price editing ...
for example if you have 20 orders and want to change price of the bottom 5, you have to scroll down adjust price, it will scroll up so you have to again scroll down adjust price etc etc etc ..
the ability to check "sell as stack/stack only" just makes the process of setting up(and adjusting price of) multiple orders easy in one click and also it clears the listing of such orders on the market as you will see 1 order instead of 20 from one guy
why would you not want it ?

Lets go slow, by scroll down I assume you mean glancing your finger against the scroll wheel for a half of a second? Eventhough it going back to top seems like a bug, it also makes sense as a mechanic to make people 'give up' on being ruthless price cutters.

For me I do not have the problem with the moment it takes, but the real reason I dont want it, is because its overly complicated. You make it seem so whimsically fixing, yet it would have devastating effects on the market.

even stack sellers could benefit from it, if there would be one more checkbox(or maybe radio button) to set stack size, you could set up 20 orders of 5 in one click ....the limit of 20 orders per retainer doesn't even have to change i think, by easing the process of setting up/managing orders would promote selling in smaller stacks which is what ppl in this thread wants
atm only the "M"s who like the clicking/scrolling hell are doing that :P

I really do not even remember what we were discussing, last I was in this thread it was "I want to buy ONE from a stack". This is what I assure you is harmful and I refuse to allow it into the game.

Can you please let me know how to sell my 31 Electrum ores, my 12 Raptor hides, and my 14 Cobalt ingots as individual pieces?

This I COULD do in 1.0 using 3 of my 16 (see with less spots, I am able to sell more than what I am able to in 2.0) avail slots on my retainer

Wulfies, I have 40 retainer slots. This is near accurate what are currently in them-

Note that all gear will be HQ unless noted, I rarely sell RQs accept for militia SB farming.

Goblin Long Sword x 11 (Varying prices based of the varying melds I did, 8,888-14,999)

Goblin Scim x 7 (5,555-9,999) [Goblin stuff, believe it or not, has made me a solid 40-50% of my money. They sell almost completely out over night, yet DO NOT do so if I set greedy prices considering im the only one doing them daily. Be fair and become profitable]

Obelisk (777,777)

Heavy Darksteel Chest (799,999)

Heavy Darksteel legs (799,999)

Random Militia Off Hand Tools (22,222)

RQ Darksteel Nugget varying stacks:

1 (2,999 per)
5 (2,222 per)
10 (1,999 per)
15 (1,777 per)
20 (1,555 per)
99 (1,234 per)

I usually use DST nugs to fill in the rest of my slots when I go to bed. So each day for at least the passed 3 weeks, I log on to an average of 350k, and 10-25 empty retainer slots, of which I either craft more stuff, or sell varying stacks of stuff with. How are you not doing this? Are all 40 of your slots full for days on end?? You're doing it wrong then and I promise you the system isnt broken because you are constantly full on retainer space. The market is designed to let people specialize in specific markets, 40 slots is MORE then enough to do that properly.

Even so, ill offer a tip I used early on crafting, found a friend who doesnt use ANY of his 40 slots (I know him IRL, that helps the trust). I mailed him the items and gave a price to list and each day the amount to lower it by until it reaches its value. Then just sell it to the vendor. Keep 20%.

He made 250k roughly in the 3-4 days we did this. I stopped because I decided LOWER end ITEMS and LOTS of them, were no longer worth my time or skill level.

I want more retainers for those times I bump out 50+ items, but I dont really think we should get them. It would hurt more then help.

For the sake of argument, lets say you wanted this Wrapped Hawksbeak Hammer (link to the XIVDB and you can see what it takes to make this.)
Now, in order to make this I will need a 40+ botanist, 40+ miner, 45+ Blacksmith, 35+ Leatherworker, 41+ Alchemist, ?? Fisher (sorry have not leveled fisherman yet,) +some Dow/DoM high enough to kill the piggies. This isn't even the 1 star militia item that need min control/craftmanship to even attempt.

Now, I've done this, thankfully I had alot of the raw mats so it only took me about 10 mins of trying to HQ to the sub-mats and building the final product (75% chance to HQ and it didnt hq ) If I had to farm, this would have taken me about an hour or 2, most of that time woudl be spentin running around and not really "seeing more of the game," I am out trying to avoid monsters/getting killed.

That is why it is so important we do not ruin all those player's jobs in this game. If each one of those people took 5 minutes to aquire the items needed, then it would be healthy if they all got about 500gil for their time.

Buying ONE item off of a stack will forever destroy most of those "busy bees" who just made that item possible. Only the ONE guy, who uses his keyboard to macro it, will sell it and TONS of it at 199 per. Now not a single person will want to go out and farm ever, it just wont be worth the time. New players will never sell their random goods, get a feel for the market/economy, until they start farming Tomes for crafters.

I implore you to think about this and realize how important it is this silly mechanic NEVER gets put in. If you cant think logically, graciously bow out to those who can.

Ok do some math. Are you ready for this? if you sold 12 eggs, 20 cookies and 100 crystals one at a time, you would need 132 retainer slots. YOU ONLY HAVE 40 TO SELL WITH. So no, in fact you can't go ahead and sell them individually if you wanted to.

He would only need 3 slots, cause he would just sell them as stacks. The guy above did the same thing... Some weird argument of "How do I sell everything individually!?!?".

YOU DO NOT, that is how. Thats not how the game was designed. Or if you do, which is a very valid approach and MANY MANY smart market players do so, you can do 40 at a time.

Manage your time, manage your retainers, manage your costs, and swim in your profits.

The idea posed in this thread has been thoroughly declined by the forum player base, even if it wasnt just a post and something that would get dev attention (it isnt), it still will NEVER see the light of day.

"BECAUSE I WANT IT", isnt good enough to even discuss why it should be elevated beyond a tedious conversation.

[Sinbios]

Lets go slow, by scroll down I assume you mean glancing your finger against the scroll wheel for a half of a second? Eventhough it going back to top seems like a bug, it also makes sense as a mechanic to make people 'give up' on being ruthless price cutters.

For me I do not have the problem with the moment it takes, but the real reason I dont want it, is because its overly complicated. You make it seem so whimsically fixing, yet it would have devastating effects on the market.

We're all being trolled right now, aren't we? Interface bugs are actually "features" to discourage undercutting, and fixing it would be too complicated?

Buying ONE item off of a stack will forever destroy most of those "busy bees" who just made that item possible. Only the ONE guy, who uses his keyboard to macro it, will sell it and TONS of it at 199 per. Now not a single person will want to go out and farm ever, it just wont be worth the time. New players will never sell their random goods, get a feel for the market/economy, until they start farming Tomes for crafters.

You still haven't answered my question: why is this bad? If that one guy can supply the demand of the entire playerbase for that item at 199 each, then why should anyone else be able to sell it at more than that? You're right, no one will want to farm that particular thing, because it's not worth farming. Why should the market be limited so that the item is made to be worth farming even though in your scenario there's apparently overwhelming supply and not enough demand? If someone else is able to sell it at 500 each, where does the extra 300 come from? From inefficiencies in the market, that's where. This is not how a health market/economy works.

[Wulfies]

Wulfies, I have 40 retainer slots. This is near accurate what are currently in them-

Note that all gear will be HQ unless noted, I rarely sell RQs accept for militia SB farming.

Goblin Long Sword x 11 (Varying prices based of the varying melds I did, 8,888-14,999)

Goblin Scim x 7 (5,555-9,999) [Goblin stuff, believe it or not, has made me a solid 40-50% of my money. They sell almost completely out over night, yet DO NOT do so if I set greedy prices considering im the only one doing them daily. Be fair and become profitable]

Obelisk (777,777)

Heavy Darksteel Chest (799,999)

Heavy Darksteel legs (799,999)

Random Militia Off Hand Tools (22,222)

RQ Darksteel Nugget varying stacks:

1 (2,999 per)
5 (2,222 per)
10 (1,999 per)
15 (1,777 per)
20 (1,555 per)
99 (1,234 per)

I usually use DST nugs to fill in the rest of my slots when I go to bed. So each day for at least the passed 3 weeks, I log on to an average of 350k, and 10-25 empty retainer slots, of which I either craft more stuff, or sell varying stacks of stuff with. How are you not doing this? Are all 40 of your slots full for days on end?? You're doing it wrong then and I promise you the system isnt broken because you are constantly full on retainer space. The market is designed to let people specialize in specific markets, 40 slots is MORE then enough to do that properly.

Your assumption here is that you are only selling the high-end mats/gear or HQ mats/gear. Yes, you CAN just sell HQ mats, but for some that is just not monetarily efficient for the buy side. If your sell strategy works for you, congratulations. So what happens to the person in their 30s trying to sell their stuff (Raptor Hides and Iron Ores and the likes)?

Please read my post regarding Buy-Side AH. That would help alleviate this problem, I hope .

Buying ONE item off of a stack will forever destroy most of those "busy bees" who just made that item possible. Only the ONE guy, who uses his keyboard to macro it, will sell it and TONS of it at 199 per. Now not a single person will want to go out and farm ever, it just wont be worth the time. New players will never sell their random goods, get a feel for the market/economy, until they start farming Tomes for crafters.

ummm...I tend to disagree with the above statement. We all know the adage "Time is money" correct? So your person that is selling a ton of "X" item at "Y" price is basically saying, in market terms, that his time farming the "X" item is worth "Y" price. So don't sell/farm if you think the price is to low, it forces market equilibrium till someone decides to sell "X" at a lower price than "Y."

Again, I go back to my original argument. The ability to buy from stacks OR sell as a stack worked in 1.0. Why would they want to change this?

[MentalPoison]

We're all being trolled right now, aren't we? Interface bugs are actually "features" to discourage undercutting, and fixing it would be too complicated?

Can you please provide the link that confirms this is a bug? I think would clear this up, since youre trying to mock Bizzy for simply offering you an olive branch in the form of "Maybe its a bug, maybe its not". Yet you jump on him hard about the semantics of what he said.

You still haven't answered my question: why is this bad? If that one guy can supply the demand of the entire playerbase for that item at 199 each, then why should anyone else be able to sell it at more than that? You're right, no one will want to farm that particular thing, because it's not worth farming. Why should the market be limited so that the item is made to be worth farming even though in your scenario there's apparently overwhelming supply and not enough demand? If someone else is able to sell it at 500 each, where does the extra 300 come from? From inefficiencies in the market, that's where. This is not how a health market/economy works.

Ive been watching this thread for awhile now and I assure you he has answered that question 90 times. It is obvious you do not get it and probably will never get it. I start to get irritated by that, but then I realize youre of the minority opinion on something you seek to get reversed in the game.

I take a sigh of relief knowing that it is something that wont be changed on a whim.

"Market be limited", by this you refer only to not being able to buy specific number from a stack on the market. Once again I think more and more of us need to come out of the woodwork to tell you, like Bizzy so eloquently did, that it is not at all a limitation or negative effect on the market.

As is, multiple sellers can sell the same exact item SIMULTANEOUSLY. Please please please, I beg you graciously to try to understand what that means. Dont just solider on with your stubborn opinion, really dive into what that means. If 5 people have an item listed, in varying prices and stacks, ALL 5 can potentially sell. You say this is a limited market and to open it up, you suggest a system that would make 5 people listing an item and ONLY, with NO EXCEPTIONS, will the lowest priced item sell, NEVER EVER EVER will the other 4 have even the tiniest chance of selling.

That is literally the only thing that would "limit the market". You guys complain about undercutting and people devaluing goods, yet are seriously trying to make the market 10x worse for all that?

Why? So you can sell 40 stacks of "eggs" you buy off a vendor, for double their price on the market, without having to stay competitive with the market?

You really just are not thinking this through.

Your assumption here is that you are only selling the high-end mats/gear or HQ mats/gear. Yes, you CAN just sell HQ mats, but for some that is just not monetarily efficient for the buy side. If your sell strategy works for you, congratulations. So what happens to the person in their 30s trying to sell their stuff (Raptor Hides and Iron Ores and the likes)?

What happens to them? It was your example of a hypothetical mid-30s leveled player with his pockets turned inside out and cannot grasp the simple concept of how to use the market and player economy to succeed. I grow wary of these endless 'But what about Bob, the bad trader! What becomes of him if we dont ruin the market for everyone else!?!?'.

I had no problem selling goods in my 30s, my FC members in their 30s dont either. As a 50 now, I do not bother with lvl 30 stuff, so they only compete with others around their level.. Or from the looks of it some people in this thread who are still selling vendor bought eggs for a 3gil profit each.

ummm...I tend to disagree with the above statement. Again, I go back to my original argument. The ability to buy from stacks OR sell as a stack worked in 1.0. Why would they want to change this?

I dont quite agree that it worked well in 1.0, but even so the only reason it even KINDA worked was due to bazaar and market wards. Those systems would take pressure off the market and allow for enough wiggle room to implement systems like BUY FROM STACK. Without them though, its a terrible idea and would ruin the market/economy.

Per the MANY previous posts replying to you from others... You are absolutely wrong in everything you say about this topic. There is a thorough counter argument to every point you failed to make. Go back and read before you post again. Thanks.

Post Key
Red = State of Confustion

The irony is so far ive only seen people reply to you, laughing at how poorly you are trying to argue in this thread. "How can I sell all my eggs at once!", which for you means we should destroy the fragile balance of the market by wrecking versatile selling. Righhhtttttt... Talk about confusing.

He is the only one mildly right in everything he says about the topic, most of you go into long winded real life examples... And when someone counters the example, you go "This isnt real life, you arent Walmart!", lol. IT WAS YOUR EXAMPLE.. rofl..

He has refuted the lame arguments over and over again. Im sure he is tired of replying and I doubt we will even see him back in here. But im pretty sure we will see you, making dull points, for a long time to come.

The real problem is that supply-side has millions and millions of units of stuff to sell (in an MMO supply-side will always be over-matched than demand side). By forcing a 40 slot limit and only allowing only stacks, suppliers are feeling the pinch of running out of space.

Then they run out of space until they sell more stuff... Where is the huge game ending problem you are pretending exists? You know you can use /shout, /fc, /L(#), /yell, and other chat channels to also trade goods?

I do not think it is "Lazy" people as you say. Some of us can not spend or do not have hours to watch minute market fluctuations and adjust accordingly.

It absolutely is lazy people with poor time management, bad economic skills, and overall just bad at video game trading. You dont have the "time" for it, but you want to change it to accommodate YOUR playstyle ONLY, simply because you think anyone better at it shouldnt be successful at it.

Only you should be successful, no matter how that would ruin the system, game, market, economy. You just HAVE to get it your way, instead of putting in the TINY effort required currently to do well.

How is that not lazy?

I dont stand there watching the market every 5 seconds, I make moves to ensure my goods sell and sell well. Ill put 10 grand (paypal!) on the fact that I have even less time then you to do it. And yet I do it and do it well. Now you think I shouldnt be able to, so you can get a free ride on market success.

[Sinbios]

<...>
I had no problem selling goods in my 30s, my FC members in their 30s dont either. As a 50 now, I do not bother with lvl 30 stuff
<...>

Ahahahahahaha!!!!

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/2557026/

Let's see:
- Claims to be a 50 crafter when highest DoH level is 18
- Same world and FC as Bizzybeast
- Wearing HQ equipment made by Bizzy Beast
- The only one in the thread defending Bizzybeast with endless praise. "So eloquent"? Really?
- Similar condescending yet awkward writing style focused on denigrating opponent with no actual content
- Likes to state bizarre assumptions based on a poor understanding of economics as fact
- Confidently states Bizzybeast won't be replying again in this thread... and how would you know that?

How sad do you have to be to have to defend your convoluted opinions using a sockpuppet...

[Felix7007]

Lets go slow, by scroll down I assume you mean glancing your finger against the scroll wheel for a half of a second? Eventhough it going back to top seems like a bug, it also makes sense as a mechanic to make people 'give up' on being ruthless price cutters.

For me I do not have the problem with the moment it takes, but the real reason I dont want it, is because its overly complicated. You make it seem so whimsically fixing, yet it would have devastating effects on the market.



I really do not even remember what we were discussing, last I was in this thread it was "I want to buy ONE from a stack". This is what I assure you is harmful and I refuse to allow it into the game.



Wulfies, I have 40 retainer slots. This is near accurate what are currently in them-

Note that all gear will be HQ unless noted, I rarely sell RQs accept for militia SB farming.

Goblin Long Sword x 11 (Varying prices based of the varying melds I did, 8,888-14,999)

Goblin Scim x 7 (5,555-9,999) [Goblin stuff, believe it or not, has made me a solid 40-50% of my money. They sell almost completely out over night, yet DO NOT do so if I set greedy prices considering im the only one doing them daily. Be fair and become profitable]

Obelisk (777,777)

Heavy Darksteel Chest (799,999)

Heavy Darksteel legs (799,999)

Random Militia Off Hand Tools (22,222)

RQ Darksteel Nugget varying stacks:

1 (2,999 per)
5 (2,222 per)
10 (1,999 per)
15 (1,777 per)
20 (1,555 per)
99 (1,234 per)

I usually use DST nugs to fill in the rest of my slots when I go to bed. So each day for at least the passed 3 weeks, I log on to an average of 350k, and 10-25 empty retainer slots, of which I either craft more stuff, or sell varying stacks of stuff with. How are you not doing this? Are all 40 of your slots full for days on end?? You're doing it wrong then and I promise you the system isnt broken because you are constantly full on retainer space. The market is designed to let people specialize in specific markets, 40 slots is MORE then enough to do that properly.

Even so, ill offer a tip I used early on crafting, found a friend who doesnt use ANY of his 40 slots (I know him IRL, that helps the trust). I mailed him the items and gave a price to list and each day the amount to lower it by until it reaches its value. Then just sell it to the vendor. Keep 20%.

He made 250k roughly in the 3-4 days we did this. I stopped because I decided LOWER end ITEMS and LOTS of them, were no longer worth my time or skill level.

I want more retainers for those times I bump out 50+ items, but I dont really think we should get them. It would hurt more then help.



That is why it is so important we do not ruin all those player's jobs in this game. If each one of those people took 5 minutes to aquire the items needed, then it would be healthy if they all got about 500gil for their time.

Buying ONE item off of a stack will forever destroy most of those "busy bees" who just made that item possible. Only the ONE guy, who uses his keyboard to macro it, will sell it and TONS of it at 199 per. Now not a single person will want to go out and farm ever, it just wont be worth the time. New players will never sell their random goods, get a feel for the market/economy, until they start farming Tomes for crafters.

I implore you to think about this and realize how important it is this silly mechanic NEVER gets put in. If you cant think logically, graciously bow out to those who can.



He would only need 3 slots, cause he would just sell them as stacks. The guy above did the same thing... Some weird argument of "How do I sell everything individually!?!?".

YOU DO NOT, that is how. Thats not how the game was designed. Or if you do, which is a very valid approach and MANY MANY smart market players do so, you can do 40 at a time.

Manage your time, manage your retainers, manage your costs, and swim in your profits.

The idea posed in this thread has been thoroughly declined by the forum player base, even if it wasnt just a post and something that would get dev attention (it isnt), it still will NEVER see the light of day.

"BECAUSE I WANT IT", isnt good enough to even discuss why it should be elevated beyond a tedious conversation.

Per the MANY previous posts replying to you from others... You are absolutely wrong in everything you say about this topic. There is a thorough counter argument to every point you failed to make. Go back and read before you post again. Thanks.

Post Key
Red = State of Confustion