Binding Coil of Bahamut Discussion

[Xilrasis]

Okay, here is where we are at. Not sure if thats significant progress but sure. We have been able to make it to the explosion with the adds close to dead or dead(we need to work a little on that). We have made it to the tornadoes and bird guy 6-9 times. So, we don't have a whole lot of exp with the 5th phase. The tornadoes seem to one-shot. I haven't survived one with 4400 HP(SCH). The dreadknight(?) seems rather week if you can survive the tornadoes. If the tornadoes do indeed one-shot there has to be a way to avoid them. We have tried several things with no luck so far, but as I said earlier, we haven't experienced it enough.

This is getting there. The mechanical brokenness is in the twisters.

Once you get a little more face time on them I think you'll understand why. :/

Good work on your current progress and good luck with continued progress.

[Xilrasis]

Oh don't be so pessimistic. I remember Ifrit taking entirely too long to down in 1.0 considering that it's the easiest of the easy mode now. And Twintania is a million times harder.

Soon we'll be like 'omg why'd that take us so long to figure out???'

There is an inherent truth about most mechanics these days: If you can think of it, it has probably already been done. There are very few (if any) novel inventions in encounter design, only the way they are put together. Occasionally, one will jump out and surprise you, but unless the concept is completely mechanically hidden (You have to run in circles 5 times and /pray to Twintania to avoid twister while it casts) or something equally silly, they are all easily deciphered.

Generally, the time it takes to complete an encounter is the number of repetitions it takes for the entire group to optimize their play and strategies (Which are generally basic, and simply honed through this period) to the point that they effectively become muscle memory, in the same way as any skill is improved. Figuring out mechanics and strategies are a very, very tiny part of this.

I promise you that there is nothing conceptually difficult or novel about this encounter, nor is it even particularly difficult to execute under ideal circumstances. The problem arises when you attempt to execute them under non-ideal circumstances and, more importantly, non-ideal latency levels. For most mechanics thus far, this hasn't really been a particular issue. There is generally a margin of error (You can survive weight of the land, or a divebomb if positioned correctly), but with later phases of Twintania, this is not the case. The mechanics are, quite literally, a /kill button. If you are hit, you die. The game doesn't ask questions, it doesn't roll the dice -- it simply kills your character. This, coupled with the fact that they have a very tiny margin for error and non-ideal circumstances make for a very frustrating encounter. Completely out of your control, what worked for the last 5 iterations of the ability suddenly kills off essential members of your raid in an uncontrollable manner. Congratulations, you now get to eat another 10,000 gil worth of food and do 10 minutes of the beginning of the encounter again.

THIS is the problem with Twintania.

[HiirNoivl]

I won't bother trying to guess or suggest any strategies. ^_^ Just keep trying. The key has to be there somewhere. Even if it is as you say, some hidden mechanic, it is as you say not so difficult up until that point (so far as we know) so at that point there has to be something there that will make that part of the encounter make sense.

[Xilrasis]

I won't bother trying to guess or suggest any strategies. ^_^ Just keep trying. The key has to be there somewhere. Even if it is as you say, some hidden mechanic, it is as you say not so difficult up until that point (so far as we know) so at that point there has to be something there that will make that part of the encounter make sense.

The encounter [seems to] makes perfect sense. The mechanics just don't always take sense into account.

[Zeigus]

I won't bother trying to guess or suggest any strategies. ^_^ Just keep trying. The key has to be there somewhere. Even if it is as you say, some hidden mechanic, it is as you say not so difficult up until that point (so far as we know) so at that point there has to be something there that will make that part of the encounter make sense.

I think the issue here is that the DEVs tested this content under LAN conditions (0ms) which probably made twisters / divebombs completely avoidable. Its a pretty self explanatory / cut and dry mechanic and with that in mind, I highly doubt there is something hidden dozens of guilds have all missed.

[Xilrasis]

I think the issue here is that the DEVs tested this content under LAN conditions (0ms) which probably made twisters / divebombs completely avoidable. Its a pretty self explanatory / cut and dry mechanic and with that in mind, I highly doubt there is something hidden dozens of guilds have all missed.

Fairly certain this is absolutely the issue. This is another case of Ouro / C'Thun where people may throw themselves against it and EVENTUALLY get it, but as soon as the core mechanic holding people back is fixed, the floodgate of kills from people who have been mastering the mechanics for the last months will open.

Also remember that a principle of computer science will most definitely apply here: One group (or even several) simply eventually completing the encounter will NOT provide definitive proof that it is not broken. It must be globally and consistently repeatable for all inputs. (which still does not prove bug-free or unbroken in a scientific sense, but hopefully you understand the correlation)

[Eliseus]

The encounter [seems to] makes perfect sense. The mechanics just don't always take sense into account.

Don't assume that the randomness you keep trying to imply in all your responses/threads is anything to do with the encounter being random, but your members screwing up and saying "but on my screen" type remarks.

The amount of QQ from you is starting to be absurd. Everyone on turn 5 knows the difficulties, but you just seem to bring it to the forums with a bunch of QQ followed with "I won't give you guys strats, yet I want to know how everyone else does the bomb phase" then "I can't believe other FCs even struggle to 50%", followed by implications that your FC would be world first if it wasn't for the RNG of the fight that doesn't exist if you know how to accurately execute strats.

A fight requiring 110% =/ RNG.

I will also assume you aren't a 1.0 player from your join date (maybe you are, maybe you aren't) and people still beat 1.0 content under non-ideal circumstances all the time. Being the elitest you seem to be, change your strats around these supposed non-ideal circumstances you keep ending up in.

I'm not necessary saying you are wrong, but man it is getting annoying trying to keep up with supposed discussion of bahamuts coil and just see you respond for pages and pages of "This encounter sucks because I don't know how to deal with tornadoes so must be RNG and someone still dies to dive phase so must be RNG" remarks.

[Xilrasis]

Don't assume that the randomness you keep trying to imply in all your responses/threads is anything to do with the encounter being random, but your members screwing up and saying "but on my screen" type remarks.

Let me guess, you havn't actually figured out twister yet?

The only "randomness" I "keep trying to imply" has nothing to do with the encounter itself being random, but instead having to do with the mechanic being inherently and unpredictably broken. This is a great job of trying to put words into my mouth though.

The amount of QQ from you is starting to be absurd. Everyone on turn 5 knows the difficulties, but you just seem to bring it to the forums with a bunch of QQ followed with "I won't give you guys strats, yet I want to know how everyone else does the bomb phase"

I believe you can see quite clearly where I stated I have zero interest in seeing other peoples strategies laid out for me, only confirmation that the mechanic was consistently avoidable through legitimate means (Which no-one was able to provide -- for the record)

then "I can't believe other FCs even struggle to 50%", followed by implications that your FC would be world first if it wasn't for the RNG of the fight that doesn't exist if you know how to accurately execute strats.

Once again, putting words in my mouth. Please, be my guest and point out where I say either of these things.

A fight requiring 110% =/ RNG.

You seem to have confused requiring 110% with not falling asleep at your keyboard.

I will also assume you aren't a 1.0 player from your join date (maybe you are, maybe you aren't) and people still beat 1.0 content under non-ideal circumstances all the time. Being the elitest you seem to be, change your strats around these supposed non-ideal circumstances you keep ending up in.

I am not a 1.0 player. You clearly do not have experience with the mechanics in question as it is not simply a matter of "change your strategy" due to non-ideal circumstances. Its a matter of "There is a clear and obvious solution to the mechanic, but it randomly does not work several times per attempt".

I'm not necessary saying you are wrong, but man it is getting annoying trying to keep up with supposed discussion of bahamuts coil and just see you respond for pages and pages of "This encounter sucks because I don't know how to deal with tornadoes so must be RNG and someone still dies to dive phase so must be RNG" remarks.

I apologize that I have been "Discussing Binding Coil" in the "Binding Coil of Bahamut" discussion thread. My apologies forreal.

[Sylvanna]

Let me guess, you havn't actually figured out twister yet?

Share pl0x, will give you lifetime supply of cookies <3

[Zeigus]

Don't assume that the randomness you keep trying to imply in all your responses/threads is anything to do with the encounter being random, but your members screwing up and saying "but on my screen" type remarks.

Xilrasis is not QQing as you put it without reason. Its not as simple as changing your strategy because there is no strategy to moving out of twisters. You either do or you don't. The delay we play with makes this portion of the encounter a RNG battle. One instance, you can move out easily. The other you somehow get hit despite repeating what you've done before. One or two instances of such are acceptable and could be chalked up to player error but 50%+ randomness makes no sense.