Some surprising data in regards to SMN dps vs BLM dps

[Crescent_Dusk]

I'm not sure how this is suprising to anyone ?
BLM has movement time + cast time with only the under powered Scathe to fill.
SMN only cast times are to reapply DoT's which tick during movement, supplimented by Pet DPS, and up to 3 potent instant cast spells.
Pretty simple.

3 potent instacast spells? Which are those?

Fester is every 10 seconds on an Aetherflow cooldown, requires 7.5 seconds of dot setup, and a BLM's Firestarter Proc pretty much equals or surpasses it.

And during periods of movement? Guess what? The Summoner has to cast 3 of his 4 DoT's, so if those DoT's fall off and you are in movement phases your damage goes to zero and starts back at ramp up while the BLM in one Astral Fire nuke does the DPS it takes the SMN 7.5 seconds of slapping on DoT's to start matching.

Please be real. Your Ramp up is basically Fire III while in Umbral Ice. You can do your spike whenever you want. The summoner on every new target has to start at 0 DoT's, casting for 7.5 seconds to even get his damage started.


Ohhhh, pet attacks. That's like 185-190 per 3 seconds. Basically less than a Scathe.

[glim]

//Ohhhh, pet attacks. That's like 185-190 per 3 seconds. Basically less than a Scathe.
//

except pet attacks are free, scathe uses a gcd, a gcd that a summoner can use with ruin 2 or bio or fester or swiftcast bio2/miasma, bio is instant cast, you can use swift cast to either miasma two or bio 2, and you only have to spend 2.5 seconds hard casting one more dot to get full potential of fester. you can ignore thunder for now if the phase is super heavy movement.

SUMMONER MOBILITY IS GOOD.

[pandabearcat]

So basically with analysis of BLM we get the ideal case where they deal basically identical DPS standstill.

Summoner loses essentially 0 dps if you can anticipate the movement phases (get your dots back up to full, etc.
BLM are kinda unduly punished.

Shrug. As far as I can tell they're basically the same...a lot of it comes straight down to how well you are at playing your class.

Summoner wins cleave fights, I'm inclined to say BLM wins AoE burst.

EDIT: someone said Shadowflare doesn't actually only do 25 potency of damage. I am inclined to agree, but I can't play the game right now and don't have a good estimate of its damage. Furthermore, keep in mind not all bosses like to sit in it, so proper use and positioning is key as well.

EDIT2: also bear in mind with more and more spell speed and the fact that pets don't scale with gear (only weapon damage), blm will start to outstrip smn regardless because of the mechanics of DoTs.

I think SMN is probably the class that scales the worst with better gear, as 25% of damage doesn't scale with int, and ~50% of our damage doesn't scale with spell speed.

The good news is SMN dps is probably the most consistent DPS of all, as it has 0 procs (which I still believe is stupid).

[ChickensEvil]

So, I don't know if SMN get access to the same pets as a SCH does, but that attack speed buff pet is AMAZING for us haha! My current gear has my 2.5 sec cast time down to 2.4, with the attack speed buff pet that drops down to 2.22! Anyway, just throwing it out there, that spell speed/attack speed is pretty sweet for BLM.

However I do still feel like BLM is the most affected by movement fights, so I would think a SMN would do better on something like Titan overall. Like, if I get lucky with Proc's I can move out of stuff while still keeping up my damage, but it is certainly not reliable. I would have some strings of really good luck, and some strings of really bad luck... so it really just depends.

[KroLeXz]

Lets not forget some of the fights in coil you can multi dot (not talking about spreading via bane) - like the snake boss after it splits, and turn 4 as it progresses you can multi dot many targets and at the point smn just takes off. Considering how badly ruin contributes to our pps - now I don't even think twice about multi dotting different targets when they are available.

[KroLeXz]

I would love to know how to apply my crit 520 into the pps formula - I feel crit for a smn high up on stats. Int > Crit > Determination > Spell Speed

[Kevee]

EDIT2: also bear in mind with more and more spell speed and the fact that pets don't scale with gear (only weapon damage), blm will start to outstrip smn regardless because of the mechanics of DoTs.

I think SMN is probably the class that scales the worst with better gear, as 25% of damage doesn't scale with int, and ~50% of our damage doesn't scale with spell speed.

The good news is SMN dps is probably the most consistent DPS of all, as it has 0 procs (which I still believe is stupid).

Pets scale with gear. Not just weapon.

[pandabearcat]

I would love to know how to apply my crit 520 into the pps formula - I feel crit for a smn high up on stats. Int > Crit > Determination > Spell Speed

Hi, the pps is just that, potency per second.

However, as far as I know noone has done the full formula for how crit, det, int, and weapon damage affect magic damage formulas.

IF it is similar to physical damage potency, again, this is a BIG IF,

The formula is similar to

DMG = (Potency/100) x [((0.0032 x STR + 0.4162) x WD) + (0.1 x STR – 0.3529) + ((DTR – 202) x 0.035))] x (1 + (0.5 x (0.0693 x CRT – 18.486)/100))

The important takeaways from this formula, IF IT APPLIES TO MAGIC DAMAGE, is

Potency is a linear multiplier to damage done. Thus, it is useful to compare raw "dps", or "pps", between BLM and SMN.
Determination (DTR) is independent of STR(INT) and Weapon damage(WD). This means at lower levels of WD and STR/INT, DTR is better, at higher levels, it is worse.
Crit is also a linear multiplier to damage done. The conversion rate is roughly 14.43 critical rating = 1% crit = 0.5% dps increase.

The point of the breakdown was to show sources of damage and a ballpark of SMN vs BLM, but it doesn't readily convert to actual damage done.

Reasons for this are manifold such as, how stats affect shadowflare, how stats affect pets, etc.

Pets scale with gear. Not just weapon.

Oh okay, I had it backwards then. That doesn't seem so bad?

[Kevee]

Oh okay, I had it backwards then. That doesn't seem so bad?

They scale with weapon damage, too.

Full gear w/relic:

http://i.imgur.com/wpkrI2C.jpg

No gear w/relic:

http://i.imgur.com/VXXKr7O.jpg

Full gear w/level 5 white book:

http://i.imgur.com/QL47UjK.jpg

No gear w/level 5 white book:

http://i.imgur.com/Wx8poSl.jpg

[pandabearcat]

Oh okay, then whoever told me they don't scale was lying.

Do we know if they scale with offstats as well?