Some surprising data in regards to SMN dps vs BLM dps

[KroLeXz]

Pandabearcast

Can you fix shadowflare, the tooltip for that spell is wrong or its bugged. It hits just about as hard as BIO 1 making it impossible that it is a 25 potency spell, someone mentioned its bugged and crits and every tick. You may want to go off that than

[ChickensEvil]

Astral 3 = 100% potency increase. Unsure about the effects of Umbral.

Well, if this chart (under Rate) is showing that multiplier then I would say that:
Blizzard 3 = potency of 55 (since it should be Astral Fire 3)
Fire 3 (Umbral Ice 3) = 55
Fire 3 (Astral Fire 3) = 440
Fire (Astral Fire 3) = 300
Thunder 2 = 50
Thunder DoT = 35 * 7 = 245

So basic rotation based on my mana pool would be:
Blizzard 3 - Thunder 2 - Fire 3 - Fire x5 (Opening and assuming 0 Procs)
Potency: 220 (first ability cast) + 50 (+ 245 DoT) + 55 + 300 * 5 = 2070 (104.81 PPS)
Time: 3.5 + 3 + 1.75 + 1.5 (first fire is faster) + 2.5 * 4 = 19.75
Blizzard 3 - Thunder 2 - Fire 3 - Fire x5 (Subsequent cycles assuming 0 Procs)
Potency: 55 + 50 (+ 245 DoT) + 55 + 300 * 5 = 1905 (105.83 PPS)
Time: 1.75 + 3 + 1.75 + 1.5 (first fire is faster) + 2.5 * 4 = 18

This isn't ENTIRELY accurate since you are faced with clipping your thunder DoT at least one time, but if we assume 1 Firestarter Proc this balances your timer out just a bit more to look like this:
Blizzard 3 - Thunder 2 - Fire 3 - Fire x5 - 1 Firestarter Fire 3 (Opening and assuming 0 Procs)
Potency: 220 (first ability cast) + 50 (+ 245 DoT) + 55 + 300 * 5 + 440 = 2510 (120.96 PPS)
Time: 3.5 + 3 + 1.75 + 1.5 (first fire is faster) + 2.5 * 4 + 1.5 (firestarter) = 20.75
Blizzard 3 - Thunder 2 - Fire 3 - Fire x5 (Subsequent cycles assuming 0 Procs)
Potency: 55 + 50 (+ 245 DoT) + 55 + 300 * 5 + 440 = 2345 (120.25 PPS)
Time: 1.75 + 3 + 1.75 + 1.5 (first fire is faster) + 2.5 * 4 + 1.5 = 19.5

So I think we still would end up clipping one tick on the Thunder 2 which would actually drop down to 2475 (119.27) for first and 2310 (118.46).

If you actually get 2 firestarter procs you would elimate any possible clipping changing the numbers to:
First:
2510 + 440 = 2950 (132.58 PPS)
20.75 + 1.5 = 22.25
Second:
2345 + 440 = 2785 (132.61 PPS)
19.5 + 1.5 = 21

This is not even beginning to take into account spell speed or thunder procs, but both of those would only have a positive effect on the outcome, as would a higher mana pool (allowing more casts of Fire). So basically from what I can tell, if you are unlucky you might fall just under a SMN, if you are normal-ish (I commonly get 2 firestarters) then you would beat a SMN on potency per second.

It should also be pointed out there is discussion/argument/whatever on some of the finer subtleties of thunder vs thunder 2 vs thunder 3 and also the usage of Flare, so the potency will change depending on many factors. However, having someone suggest that a SMN is BLOWING a BLM out of the water? unlikely... unless you are just doing some crazy stupid cycle/rotation on your BLM.

Final Disclaimer: Since I based this on my mana pool, If you look at my gear you will notice I am not even currently full darklight, nor do I have my relic yet, and there is potential there to get a larger mana pool if anything has piety on it... which begs another question of, how useful really IS piety to us?

Edit: Just to compare:
No Firestarter Procs ~105 PPS
1 Firestarter Proc ~119 PPS
2 Firestarter Proc ~132.5 PPS

I would say it is VERY unlikely given a 40% proc chance and hitting fire 5 times to not get at least 1 firestarter, so lets even take the average of the two putting us at ~125.75 PPS which places us just barely above SMN using my posted rotation.

If others out there are correct that there are BETTER rotations, then it would only serve to push us much farther ahead of the SMN based solely on Potency... so then the only other question remains, what is the stat differences between the two classes... Do you possibly end up with more INT than a BLM? Or slightly higher weapon damage? Assuming the Devs made stat balance even across the board for the best of the best gear, I would say that it seems likely that the two classes balance out to be about even on a damage scale.

Edit 2:

Just an fyi, fire takes longer than 2.5s to cast during AF.

Uhh, it's the mechanics of AF.

AF cuts blizzard cast time, increases fire.

UI increases blizzard cast time, decreases fire.

The only things I see, is that it increases your damage while increasing MP costs and opposite when using the opposite spells, and when you finally pick up AF3/UI3 it cuts the cast time in half for the OPPOSITE spell, there is nothing suggesting that it increases your cast time for anything. And my tooltip in game always remains at 2.5 seconds. (well, it is less than that because of spell speed, but you know what I mean)

What I would ask, is either a direct source stating otherwise, or for you to please get your TMG up to 40 and take a screen shot of it showing a 3 second or 3.5 second or whatever it is you are suggesting cast time. I would NEVER get anything cast off in a boss fight if ALL my spells took that long to cast, so I promise you, it is 2.5

[NdranC]

FFXIV-APP Is really inaccurate according to the testings me and 2 more friends did. To start with Bio I and Bio II, even though the summoner was by himself, was doing 4 times more damage, according to the dps meter, than they were actually doing (added up the ticks manually). To make things worse it was consistently misreporting the amount skills being used on the target. I would tell my friend to cast 50 ruins and we all counted 50 ruins in a row and by the end we all had different ruin counts on our individual parser ranging from 42 to 47. We did this with other skills and it was never accurate. So unless I'm missing something, currently DPS Meters are completely unreliably and shouldn't even be used for fun.

[PessimiStick]

Just an fyi, fire takes longer than 2.5s to cast during AF.

Uhh, it's the mechanics of AF.

AF cuts blizzard cast time, increases fire.

UI increases blizzard cast time, decreases fire.

99% sure you are incorrect. Astral increases mana cost and damage, not cast time. Umbral decreases cast time, mana, and damage.

[Kevee]

99% sure you are incorrect. Astral increases mana cost and damage, not cast time. Umbral decreases cast time, mana, and damage.

Yeah, I just tested it. I could've sworn it increased cast times -- But I haven't touched THM in such a long time. Got swiftcast and dropped it.

[Silvano]

Don't play BLM much, but I wanted to go ahead and quash a couple of the assumptions and fallacies in the few posts I've read.

Firstly, straight from the creator of FFXIV-APP:
"SMN/SCH/ACN are a known issues right now; partly because some of the DoT's don't do an initial damage number. If anyone can shed light on the exact formula I can at least look into correcting it as much as possible. Right now also multi-target actions are almost impossible to track via the log alone." Source This was confirmed by a member of my FC; Bio did 500% damage per tick on the parser while BioII did 10%, then in a subsequent test Bio did about 20% and BioII was doing 150%.

Secondly, for the reduced cast times question, AF/UI 3 reduce cast times for the other aspect.

[xardus]

but...u have to know that parser is bugged for dots ^^ he dsnt count tic per tic but when u press "bio" he calculate entire dmg for entire duration...so if u spam it 10 time u will get enchanted dps but ur real dps is a normal bio ,garuda pet has same issue i think because he extends ur dot,for parser garuda has higher dps than ifrit and isnt real at all and u dont need parser to see

[Jay9]

I have a parser too, and right now, SMN dps is ramped up way higher than it really is. The DoT calculator is somewhat inaccurate for SMN classes due to some bug, so the numbers you see are inflated.

[Imoye]

Idk, I like my black mage. Sure could use a couple of improvements here and there, but I'm enjoying it so far.

[Veil]

So, for the past month or so I've primarily played BLM. However, after getting my +1 Relic this week, I decided that since I already had a full Darklight set for BLM, I might as well get my SMN relic as well. BLM has always stood out to me as a high damage class that in a fight requiring little movment, does insane damage. I had always assumed that SMN would be great dps as well, but like many others, also thought that in a mobile fight, SMN would come out on top and BLM would fall short.

Intrigued, I decided to delve further into actually testing these theories instead of merely speculating. After playing with a parser and finally running the numbers and I was shocked by the results.

I'm not sure how this is suprising to anyone ?
BLM has movement time + cast time with only the under powered Scathe to fill.
SMN only cast times are to reapply DoT's which tick during movement, supplimented by Pet DPS, and up to 3 potent instant cast spells.
Pretty simple.